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PODCAST: On The Blue Line Podcast with Wayne Mulder | MORNING ROLL CALL | You, NOT THE POLICE, are the First Responder | Episode 076

Wayne Mulder

On The Blue Line Podcast with Wayne Mulder | MORNING ROLL CALL | You, NOT THE POLICE, are the First Responder | Episode 076

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Show Notes from This Episode

The On The Blue Line Podcast and Blog has the mission of Empowering Cops in their personal lives and educating the public on the realities of law enforcement. The morning roll call is a weekly monologue show with Wayne Mulder. The Interview Room podcast is an interview style format hosted by Wayne Mulder.

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In this episode:

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-       Get the eBook, “How the law enforcement makes you cynical and what you can do about it” by Wayne Mulder.

After the episode: 

On The Blue Line was founded and is operated by active-duty law enforcement to fulfill the mission of providing guidance, resources and community for law enforcement officers, first responders, and military personal in their off-duty lives.

HONOR | EMPOWER | EDUCATE | DEFEND

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TRANSCRIPTION OF EPISODE. Please note this is a new service we are offering and there will be spelling, grammar and accuracy issues. This transcription is offered as a convenience to our listeners, but at this time it is not guaranteed to be accurate.

00:00:08:12 - 00:00:31:25

Wayne Mulder

Welcome everybody to the On The Blue Line podcast with Wayne Mulder. I am happy to be back with you again. And I am the host, Wayne Mulder. That's right. You guessed it. I hope y'all are having a good week. I hope that everyone is staying safe out there. And I hope everyone's ready for another morning roll call. Then here, this is the short, usually less than 30 minutes.

00:00:31:25 - 00:00:53:38

Wayne Mulder

Unless I become a long winded podcast where I talk about something that is on my heart, something that I want to share with you, and possibly something actionable. Occasionally a news story. Occasionally several news stories or something that I want to drive home. If you haven't had a chance to go back and listen to the last few podcast, I encourage you to do so.

00:00:54:00 - 00:01:20:25

Wayne Mulder

Three weeks ago we came back after a pretty long hiatus. I encourage you to go back and listen to that podcast where I explained the beginnings of On the Blue Line, why we were absent for a year and what we are doing now. So I hope that you will check that podcast out. And then last week I was able to read a portion chapter, a small chapter from my small book called How Law Enforcement The How the Law Enforcement Career Makes You Cynical.

00:01:20:41 - 00:01:56:46

Wayne Mulder

And then more importantly, which is not part of the title, but more importantly, quote, what you can do about it, because that is the important part. So I hope that you will check that out. We've got two weeks left. The book is free. No Strings Attached for You up until September 1st. So if you are interested in reading it, if you do think it would be beneficial if you have that problem, where you're looking around and you can't think of anybody who possibly could be cynical, like you're sitting there, you're staring in the mirror and you're like, Hmm, I cannot for the life of me think of anybody cynical, but I'm sure you have a

00:01:56:46 - 00:02:13:57

Wayne Mulder

friend that is cynical if they've been in law enforcement for any length of time. So just think about it, you know, and maybe you'll get it for them and then, I don't know, read it so that you can share the information with them later. Just an idea. So I hope you'll check that out. Go to the website and the blue links.

00:02:14:11 - 00:02:28:27

Wayne Mulder

It's right on the home page for the next two weeks and then I'm going to be moving some things around. But for the next two weeks straight on the homepage, click on it. You do have to provide an email address. As with all email lists. You could unsubscribe if for some reason it pains you to get emails from on the blue line.

00:02:28:28 - 00:03:02:03

Wayne Mulder

But I hope that you won't. And then you can get the book for free after September 1st, it will only be available as a Kindle e-book. Still, it only cost $1.99 and it is available there. Now, if you would rather do that and not have to give your email address. So that is enough of that this week. I'm actually if you did listen to pretty much what our mission is and what I was talking about with the podcast couple weeks ago, I talked about that we really have two goals and that's empowering law enforcement officers in their personal lives and then educating the public on the realities of law enforcement.

00:03:02:26 - 00:03:21:23

Wayne Mulder

This week is going to fall into that second category. I want to go over a few things. I'm not going to go in really deep on a couple of these, and you're going to understand why I'm saying that here in just a moment. But I want to go over a few things that have come up in recent weeks and then drive a point home that will hopefully help our non law enforcement listeners.

00:03:21:23 - 00:03:39:30

Wayne Mulder

And then of course, as always, if you have a different thought or differing opinion, I hope that you will join us on social and I would love to hear it. Or if you love the concept then I would love to hear that as well. So let's get into this. So first and foremost, and I'm actually going to do this in a little bit different order than I had sat down to do it.

00:03:39:57 - 00:03:59:43

Wayne Mulder

I want to first go to the valley of all the shooting. Now, a lot of things have been said about this. This is not going to go deep into that at all. That is not my intent with this, because you're going to see where I'm going with this in just a moment. Rather, I just want to point out this horrific response.

00:04:00:24 - 00:04:29:29

Wayne Mulder

There were certainly some failures, right? I'm not saying everything was a failure. There's been some that I've watched online give their opinions on it. And pretty much they have laid out that everybody, all 400 plus officers or whatever that originally that got there were cowards and they throw out these crazy things. I that's not where I'm at with any of this but there are definitely some lessons and there are definitely some major failures that probably that that possibly led to the loss of life and so forth.

00:04:29:29 - 00:04:51:41

Wayne Mulder

But one of the major ones and I think anyone in law enforcement sees it right away, is at some point they decided to move away from what is accepted training now and treating this like an active shooter situation. And it became a barricaded subject situation in their mind. And I'm not sure why that was. I'll be honest with they have not done the level of research that I would want to do to get deep into this.

00:04:52:31 - 00:05:22:57

Wayne Mulder

But definitely a tragedy, tragedy that occurred and definitely some failures and lessons that we absolutely can never make again. So and on all sorts of fronts when it comes to that. But what I really want to point out is so here's a horrible situation. This gunman goes into the school, law enforcement is there. In fact, the first officers, I believe it's within minutes, actually enter the school when they have when they go down the hallway and there is some engagement that takes place, they get shot at then.

00:05:22:57 - 00:05:46:33

Wayne Mulder

Then they fall back and then again, for whatever reason, this becomes in their mind a barricaded subject situation. And that's not what it was, but that's what occurs. And you see this on video and then time elapsed since like 47 plus minutes later when heavily armed, you know, there are officers that show up that actually have rifles and they actually have shields and there's still no engagement that takes place.

00:05:46:33 - 00:06:11:21

Wayne Mulder

And then it's well over an hour before they finally enter into there and stop the threat effectively. So there's two takeaways just in very broad strokes. And again, the purpose of this is not to discuss the idea of all this shooting. In fact, that's not even going to be the name of this episode. I may go into it at a different time once I can get through all of the research I want to do so that I can make some really big points on.

00:06:11:21 - 00:06:34:11

Wayne Mulder

First of all, why did we what was the disconnect into it becoming a barricaded subject situation in their minds? And then secondly, what what happened with the leadership, because there is clearly a leadership failure on so many levels that what I at least what I'm seeing from the outside looking in and again, as always, I want to say that I don't have any inside information and I don't know anybody down there.

00:06:34:11 - 00:06:54:09

Wayne Mulder

And I don't I always want to give the benefit of the doubt to anybody. And that's true in any of these situations, with any of these organizations that unlike the legacy media, I do not want to jump to conclusions. Rather, I want to wait for all the facts and make sure that we fully understand everything before we make a determination or any thoughts on that.

00:06:54:34 - 00:07:19:49

Wayne Mulder

So for the purpose of today, this episode deals with the fact that citizens are the actual first responders. That's the point I kind of want to drive home. So in this horrible situation where you have pretty much an hour that goes by before law enforcement takes action or takes action to neutralize the threat, there is action that's taken prior to that, but before the action to neutralize the threat.

00:07:20:29 - 00:07:38:31

Wayne Mulder

So that leads to the question, well, how long does it take for law enforcement to get to a scene? How long does it take? If I call 911 when they're the cops coming? Right. That becomes the question. Well, I'm going to go over a few articles here, but on average, what's interesting is most of the articles, it's hard to find current statistics.

00:07:38:32 - 00:08:00:31

Wayne Mulder

In fact, the Bureau of Criminal Justice Statistics, most of them are from like 2012. It's hard to find current statistics from the federal government on this. And I've searched a few different locations and we'll keep searching. What you find are a lot of businesses that are in some sort of security alarms, those kind of things. They're the ones that are putting out a lot of these statistics.

00:08:00:31 - 00:08:25:29

Wayne Mulder

So take everything with a grain of salt. But I will say that these they are at least quoting back to some of the FBI's figures from the 2000 early 2000 to 2020 12, as well as from the Bureau of Criminal Justice Statistics. In their findings, police response times had an average of 3 minutes to over 15 minutes, and then they broke this down.

00:08:25:31 - 00:08:48:48

Wayne Mulder

They go a little bit further as to what it has to do with why it takes so long and then what factors are played in there. So the three factors that determine response time, we all know this. If you're in law enforcement, number of incoming calls at the time of your call, the number of officers available to respond and the number of officers needed to respond to a specific situation.

00:08:48:48 - 00:09:11:19

Wayne Mulder

I would argue also what your specific situation is getting kind of back to the active shooter situation that I started this started this discussion about, and then it goes down to looking at various cities across the country in their average response times to different calls. I'm going to have a link in the show notes so you can look at these specifically and kind of get some idea.

00:09:11:49 - 00:09:41:56

Wayne Mulder

I thought it was really interesting. These figures actually come from the Bureau of Justice Statistics in 2008. So crimes of violence, right. Within 5 minutes, they were there 28.3% of the time on a national level, 33.5% of the time, 11 minutes to one hour. And what's really mind boggling is longer than a day and 0.4%. Now it makes sense if you get into the weeds on this a little bit because they are putting crimes of violence.

00:09:42:16 - 00:10:04:54

Wayne Mulder

They're also adding like simple assault and aggravated assault. So that could essentially be a little more than a threat type situation with the suspect gone. So it is possible that a call like that would hold depending on what else is going on and that it very well, you know, two people get in some sort of confrontation at a store.

00:10:05:12 - 00:10:26:22

Wayne Mulder

One of them says, I'm going to punch you in the nose. And he leaves and you have no suspect information. And so forth. It could hold it could go to a desk at some agencies. And, you know, it's not a priority call at that moment. So but it is interesting that under the crimes of violence category that there are some that are longer than a day before the law enforcement got there.

00:10:27:00 - 00:10:53:23

Wayne Mulder

Property crimes, longer than a day, 1.9%. Within 5 minutes, 12.8%. The greatest amount for property crimes is 11 minutes to one hour. Most of them fall in there, which is 47.8%, and that includes household burglaries. We're in that same thing. 46.9% were in the window of 11 minutes to one hour and thefts. It was in that 48% as well.

00:10:53:23 - 00:11:29:42

Wayne Mulder

So kind of interesting when you look at that from a specific a crime type, when you look at active shooter situations, it looks like the average by year was in that three minute range. That's where that number kind of comes from as far as how long it takes for police to get there, it varied. There were quite a large disparity depending on which which type of case they were responding to.

00:11:30:07 - 00:11:54:38

Wayne Mulder

The other thing that's very interesting and I have this article in there in the show notes from the FBI is the event review resolution. And prior to police arriving and after police, the road arrived on scene. And so that is kind of interesting what they're looking at all of the active shooter situations during this time period and how many of them resolved, how many.

00:11:54:38 - 00:12:25:31

Wayne Mulder

And then the suspect left, the smallest number was five out of the incidents that they looked at in this one. So by far the smallest was the subject leaving out of. So essentially the event begins. And then one of two options either the attacker stops or the victim stop the attacker, 34, the attacker stopped. And then in 29 of those 34, they committed suicide.

00:12:25:31 - 00:12:53:46

Wayne Mulder

Only five of them left the victim stop attack attacker and 17. So in roughly half of them, the victim stopped the attacker. And then in 14 of them, they subdued them and three of them, they shot them. So I find that kind of interesting. And then once police arrived, then it kind of splits again. So out of 53 cases when the police arose in the incident was still going on, 21 of them, the attacker stopped and 32, the police stopped the attacker.

00:12:53:55 - 00:13:14:47

Wayne Mulder

And then it just you can follow it down from there. So it's interesting when we look at these situations, how long it takes for law enforcement to get there and how long it takes for law enforcement to get set up and then take action on whatever the situation may be. Now, this isn't in any way meant to be anti law enforcement.

00:13:14:47 - 00:13:35:52

Wayne Mulder

There is a reality to how these calls come in. Right. So you call 911, it goes to a dispatch center. There are some things happening right now with like live dispatch where law enforcement is getting the information in real time, which will hopefully shrink some of these response times. I know there are some local agencies that are using it and there's some other technology out there.

00:13:35:52 - 00:14:00:47

Wayne Mulder

So things are probably only going to get better in law enforcement's going to be able to get there faster. But no matter what, there's always some delay. There's always a moment between when you, the caller, have to share information with law enforcement. So the chances of them being there in seconds, short of them being there already. So like the situations where maybe an officer is inside the 7-Eleven and then something unfolds at the 7-Eleven, then?

00:14:00:47 - 00:14:22:30

Wayne Mulder

Yeah, absolutely. They're there immediately and they can deal with whatever the situation may be. But in most cases, when you call the cops, there's some delay between when you provide the information and when law enforcement is going to be able to arrive and take care of whatever the situation may be. That being said, I didn't want to talk about this story that you've probably heard happened last month.

00:14:22:30 - 00:14:47:03

Wayne Mulder

And it was the one out of Indiana with the mall killer. What's amazing is these details. So law enforcement, Greenwood Police Chief James Eisen, he ends up he had to issue a correction because when he first had the press conference, he said that this young this young man in Indiana, he was able to neutralize the mall perpetrator within 2 minutes, is what he said originally.

00:14:47:30 - 00:15:12:24

Wayne Mulder

Well, what they do is they look at the surveillance footage and the surveillance footage shows the killer entered the mall shortly before 5 p.m.. He spent about an hour in the bathroom before he starts firing at patrons in the Greenwood Park Mall food court. Well, police said he exited the bathroom at five 5648 and was neutralized by five 5703 15 seconds.

00:15:12:56 - 00:15:32:56

Wayne Mulder

What's even more impressive is that he fired ten shots from his handgun from a distance of 40 yards and police said the killer was shot eight times and none of them were self-inflicted gunshot wounds. So eight out of ten from 40 yards and 15 seconds, that is impressive. And that is somebody who has trained with his firearm. I guarantee you.

00:15:32:56 - 00:16:02:08

Wayne Mulder

In fact, police involved shootings typically don't have those kind of numbers. And these are guys that have to qualify every year. So in girls that qualify every year. So it's just amazing what he did. In fact, quoting his actions were nothing short of heroic. He engaged the gunman from quite a distance with a handgun, was very proficient in that, was tactically sound, because as he moved to close in on the suspect, he was also motioning for people to exit behind him, which they were able to see on video.

00:16:02:08 - 00:16:24:11

Wayne Mulder

And then many people would have died last night if not for this responsible armed citizen that took action very quickly. And within the first 2 minutes of the shooting. What's interesting is he actually had no they said his actions would suggest him being a highly trained military operator, but he had no form of firearms training. He learned from his grandfather.

00:16:24:31 - 00:16:51:23

Wayne Mulder

And then, of course, he was carrying under the new constitutional carry law that they had just enacted in Indiana. One other thing that I really like about Eli Dixon here, it's just a really cool part of this is the media has been reaching out, obviously, and wanted to have him on and want to talk to him. And his attorney came forward and said, listen, because we want to respect the ongoing criminal investigation by the Greenwood Police Department.

00:16:51:23 - 00:17:18:02

Wayne Mulder

Take time to honor the three innocent lives lost. We won't be making any substantive, substantive comments on the Sunday's events until the authorities investigation is closed. In the interim, we ask that you respect the privacy of Eli and his family. How cool is that? So not only not only did he do this this heroic act, he didn't make a media circus out of it either and wasn't seeking the limelight immediately.

00:17:18:02 - 00:17:42:43

Wayne Mulder

Not in the future. He may talk about it and there may be and I hope that there is. I would like to hear more from him and more. You know, you talk about probably one of the neatest things is learning to shoot from his grandfather. You know, some of this is what's lost in America. This is what we don't have is parents teaching their kids these skills and then being able to, in a time of crisis, step up and take care of something.

00:17:42:43 - 00:18:06:17

Wayne Mulder

So that's kind of the point. And that's really where I want to end it this week is, you know, there is this push right now for the government to take care of whatever problem you may have. Right. It doesn't matter what it is. It doesn't matter what arena we're in, whatever crisis they dream up, as I've spoken about in previous weeks, it doesn't matter on any of those fronts.

00:18:06:17 - 00:18:31:27

Wayne Mulder

There's this idea that the government is going to solve your problem and that trickles down to this idea that law enforcement is going to be able to solve whatever problem may arise. So that's why they, the people that are against things like the Second Amendment, which is a clearly defined God given right, but nonetheless, those who fall on the argument that, well, people shouldn't be able to carry guns because police carry guns.

00:18:31:43 - 00:18:57:36

Wayne Mulder

Well, you can see from this, these three examples that I've given you, that if an incident is taking place and sadly, by the time law enforcement gets there, there's a higher probability that that situation is over. And if you don't have a way to defend yourself, it probably was not positively resolved. It was probably quite negatively resolved. In other words, something bad probably happened.

00:18:57:36 - 00:19:24:53

Wayne Mulder

And the bad guy either harmed themselves or they took off. We know that statistically, right? So there is this whole idea that, well, we want the government take over. We want law enforcement to take care of it. No, you are the first responder. You are the person who is going to have to respond to whatever that situation is initially and to have some sort of basic skill, some sort of basic knowledge, some sort of basic understanding of what to do when things go awry.

00:19:25:20 - 00:19:42:15

Wayne Mulder

I'm not saying you need to be a prepper. I'm not saying, in fact, I don't qualify in any way as a quote unquote prepper whatever term you want to throw out there. I don't I don't think you need to have an everyday carry on, you know, or you're pulling out, you know, multiple guns and you've got knives and you've got all these different things.

00:19:42:15 - 00:20:01:45

Wayne Mulder

But there are a few basic things that you should probably have on you. A firearm being one of them, a knife being another, a small pocketknife, the kind of thing that your grandfather would say. You never leave the house without that kind of thing. You should. I actually do. Keep turning it in my bag that I typically have with me when I'm in my vehicle.

00:20:01:59 - 00:20:23:54

Wayne Mulder

The reason I keep that is to me, that is actually probably a greater risk and a higher probability in some car accidents and different things that I may come across, that that tourniquet could save more lives than even the firearm could. So it's those kind of little things. I'm not saying I'll go crazy, keep one in the car, keep one handy, but think about do you need to change your thinking?

00:20:23:54 - 00:20:43:54

Wayne Mulder

And we as a society need to change our thinking. There is, as we know, the Boy Scout motto, which I don't have much respect for Boy Scouts anymore, just the organization, not those in it, but the motto of Be Prepared. Right. That that's such a great model and it's so simple, but it's exactly where we're at. You need to be prepared.

00:20:44:01 - 00:21:03:11

Wayne Mulder

You need to be ready, be ready for whatever may happen. Lord forbid you're in a food court. And I think this is a good question we all need to ask ourselves, even myself included. There's some self-reflection to do here. Right? So you're in a food court in an incident like this one in Indiana unfolds. Do I have the skills to do what he did?

00:21:03:11 - 00:21:22:06

Wayne Mulder

Can I neutralize this threat from 40 yards, or am I there? And if you're not, then I'd say it's time to go to the range. See, there's this mistaken idea. And listen, law enforcement are heroes. They're going to get there. They're going to help those who are vulnerable, those who are been victimized, those who can't help themselves in a lot of cases.

00:21:22:32 - 00:21:46:40

Wayne Mulder

But they many times it's a latent investigation. In other words, it's after the fact. They respond, right? They react. They get there after the fact, after it's already unfolded, and they piece it together. They're there to get the information to for successful prosecution to help those that they can, make sure that they get medical help. All those things are taking place.

00:21:46:40 - 00:22:03:12

Wayne Mulder

But what they don't necessarily what they're not necessarily able to do is deal with it in the moment. In other words, something like this shooting at the mall, if that young man would have been there 3 to 5 minutes, probably not having any idea. I haven't looked at the dispatch screens. I have no idea how far out police were.

00:22:03:13 - 00:22:24:38

Wayne Mulder

Maybe there was someone in the parking lot working on reports, but presumably 3 to 5 minutes, 3 to 15 minutes is a probably a pretty good average of how long it may have taken. Well, how many lives could have been lost in that period of time? Too many to think about. Right. And the answer lies in having citizens be responsible for themselves.

00:22:24:38 - 00:22:45:45

Wayne Mulder

If you were able, if you are capable, if you are able to go through the training, if you are able to self educate, be prepared and be ready and become your own first responder. In that regard. That is the best action for society. It's the best action for you, and it'll be the best action for your family. And quite frankly, it's the best thing for law enforcement.

00:22:46:04 - 00:23:05:29

Wayne Mulder

I would much rather show up after the fact and see that a citizen saved the lives of multiple other people. No more piece of together get to make sure the bad guys hold responsible and we'll call it a day because at the end of the day, you as a citizen of America are your own first responder. So let me leave you with two thoughts.

00:23:05:29 - 00:23:29:01

Wayne Mulder

First of all, don't let anybody, any government, any regime, anyone who thinks that they know better than the Constitution to take these rights away from you should be vehemently opposed to such things. Secondly, be as well-trained as you can be. Be as knowledgeable as you can be. I'm not saying you got to be a nut. I'm not saying you got to shoot necessarily every day.

00:23:29:23 - 00:23:47:11

Wayne Mulder

I'm not saying you've got to be at the range every day. In fact, for the cost. Right now, I don't know how you can afford to with the price of ammunition, but we live in a great time. You can actually get those little laser sights and training on your own at your house. There's all sorts of things you can do if you decide you want to do it.

00:23:47:58 - 00:24:05:07

Wayne Mulder

So I'll leave you with that this week. I hope everyone has a great week. To those listening in law enforcement, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. If you have differing thoughts, please be sure to reach out. We're on every major social media platform, most of them @ on the Blue Line podcast and on the Blue Line podcast.

00:24:05:23 - 00:24:31:20

Wayne Mulder

You can find all that information by going to the website at OnTheBlueLine.com. Everyone, have a great week and be safe out there and I'll see you out there on the blue line.