PODCAST: You must have Heart and Backbone with Dylan Roos | THE INTERVIEW ROOM | Episode 041

The Interview Room
Written By Wayne Mulder
Show image for On The Blue Line Podcast with Host Wayne Mulder and guest Dylan Roos

**Explicit Language Warning- There are adult language and subjects used/ discussed in this episode. Please be aware in case young children are present. I want my guests to be authentic and real in our conversations, this episode fulfills that goal. Enjoy!

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You must have Heart and Backbone with Dylan Roos | THE INTERVIEW ROOM | Episode 041

Image of Dylan Roos, guest on the On The Blue Line Podcast speaking at an event

Dylan Roos

Dylan Roos Coaching

Meet this Weeks Guest: Dylan Roos

Dylan Roos is a master NLP practitioner, accredited health coach and masculinity coach. Dylan mentors young men through his flagship program "Prince to King."


Dylan has worked extensively in the men's space for 4 years now and is passionate about reshaping masculinity for the modern man.

Show Notes from This Episode

START at www.OnTheBlueLine.com

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Topics we discuss: 

  • Vulnerability equals Strength

  • Peter Pan Syndrome

  • Young men and escaping to electronics

  • Wounded Masculinity

  • Role Models

  • Authentic Manhood

  • Toxic Masculinity versus Positive Masculinity

CONNECT with Dylan:

LINKS discussed:

AFTER the episode:

On The Blue Line was founded and is operated by active-duty law enforcement to fulfill the mission of providing guidance, resources and community for law enforcement officers, first responders, and military personal in their off-duty lives.

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TRANSCRIPTION OF EPISODE. Please note this is a new service we are offering and there will be spelling, grammar and accuracy issues. This transcription is offered as a convenience to our listeners, but at this time it is not guaranteed to be accurate.

00:00:02:06 - 00:00:35:24

Wayne Mulder

Hey, everyone, welcome to the On the Blue Line podcast. This is the interview room and I am your host, Wayne Mulder and I am excited to be back with you yet again this week. I don't know about you, but I have been enjoying this season of the interview room and you're like, Well, of course you are, because you're the one that's doing the talking.

00:00:36:12 - 00:00:59:02

Wayne Mulder

But remember, I get to sit down with these people first and I get to have these conversations and I have thoroughly enjoyed each and every guest, all of them that I've been able to sit down with throughout this journey with on the Blue Line. But these last four guest, I really am excited about not only the conversations we've had so far, but the conversations that are coming up in the season.

00:00:59:02 - 00:01:18:26

Wayne Mulder

And I hope that you are joining them as well. So this week is no different. Please make sure this is the interview room. The other podcast that comes out weekly is called Morning Roll Call. That's 10 to 15 minutes, sometimes 30 of me and you sitting down and having a chat. So make sure you check those out. They typically come out on Monday.

00:01:18:26 - 00:01:41:16

Wayne Mulder

Right now, like I mentioned last week, there's going to be some changes with that and hopefully more often, but one thing at a time. So who is my guest this week? This was a fascinating and much needed conversation and it had nothing to do with law enforcement, and yet it had everything to do with law enforcement. So Dylan Roos is my guest this week.

00:01:41:16 - 00:02:14:12

Wayne Mulder

He's a master NLP practitioner, accredited health coach and masculinity coach. He mentors young men through his flagship program, Prince to King and Dylan has worked extensively in the men's space for four years and is passionate about reshaping masculinity for the modern man. I love this conversation and what is really and this is I know sometimes and no one's ever give me a negative feedback about this, but obviously it's called the on the Blue Line podcast and there are lots of times I have conversations on here that have absolute nothing to do with law enforcement, and I'm sure there's a little bit of an eye roll or what's he thinking?

00:02:14:12 - 00:02:43:11

Wayne Mulder

Or what exactly is this podcast all about? Well, this podcast is all about life, and it's conversation like this that draw it back to not only is about raising young men masculinity, we get into some of these buzzwords like toxic masculinity, and then we talk about good things like positive masculinity and so forth. But probably one of the best sections, some of the best advice that I have ever had on this show in the mental health space comes in this interview.

00:02:43:19 - 00:03:03:27

Wayne Mulder

So you are not going to want to miss this. In fact, I'm probably going to cut that out and put it out separately as well, because it's just if we could all learn what Dylan says when it comes to mental health in this podcast, we could literally change the environment for law enforcement going forward. I sincerely believe that, and I think you will too, by the time this is over.

00:03:04:06 - 00:03:14:28

Wayne Mulder

So without taking any more time, let me introduce you to this week's guest, Dylan Roos Well, Dylan, welcome to the show.

00:03:15:20 - 00:03:17:28

Dylan Roos

Thank you, Wayne. Excited to be here, mate.

00:03:18:12 - 00:03:30:02

Wayne Mulder

Well, thank you. I am I am excited to have you. I'm glad we were able to connect. I think we connected through Pod Match and I'm definitely looking forward to having this conversation. The things that you are doing for young men, it's awesome.

00:03:30:15 - 00:03:31:25

Dylan Roos

Thank you, man. I appreciate it.

00:03:32:19 - 00:03:42:13

Wayne Mulder

Well, let's start, as I always do. I like to ask these little break the ice questions are these get to know you type questions. So coffee or tea for you Dylan Coffee.

00:03:42:15 - 00:03:43:12

Dylan Roos

I'm a coffee man.

00:03:43:19 - 00:03:44:08

Wayne Mulder

I love it.

00:03:44:20 - 00:03:45:24

Dylan Roos

To a day. At the moment.

00:03:46:21 - 00:03:57:01

Wayne Mulder

I'm finding that the answer always comes in spurts because in the last two episodes I had, they were both iced tea drinkers. And then now today they're both coffee drinkers.

00:03:57:01 - 00:03:58:15

Dylan Roos

So yeah, man.

00:03:58:17 - 00:03:59:14

Wayne Mulder

Welcome to the group.

00:03:59:24 - 00:04:08:09

Dylan Roos

Massive. Never drank coffee growing up. And then as soon as I went to university or college buying something about getting to college, I was just like, I need coffee now.

00:04:09:09 - 00:04:25:03

Wayne Mulder

Well, for me, but neither of my parents drink coffee. But when I was a teenager, I would spend some of my summers on Fort Campbell, Kentucky, with an uncle of mine. And there at that military base, you started drinking coffee. In fact, you started drinking strong coffee. The crunchier.

00:04:25:03 - 00:04:27:11

Dylan Roos

The better. Yeah, I'm sure so.

00:04:27:11 - 00:04:28:04

Wayne Mulder

So that definitely.

00:04:28:04 - 00:04:30:09

Dylan Roos

Won the lottery, man. I like to have a bit of milk.

00:04:31:05 - 00:04:35:03

Wayne Mulder

Nothing wrong with that. So do you have a favorite place to have that drink? Coffee, Dylan.

00:04:36:18 - 00:04:54:12

Dylan Roos

Well, I grew up in Sydney, Australia, and then I lived in Melbourne for about five or six years and Melbourne has the best coffee of it's like incredible coffee. So I used to work as a barista for three or four years. I'm a massive coffee snob, so I would say if I could drink it anywhere in the world, it would be in my favorite cafe in Melbourne.

00:04:54:12 - 00:05:04:06

Dylan Roos

But for right now I live, you know, in Hawaii and, and I like to have my morning coffee just looking at the sunrise and, and looking out over the water. So it's not a bad spot to have it?

00:05:04:18 - 00:05:08:18

Wayne Mulder

Not at all. Well, that's awesome. Do you have a best or worst travel story.

00:05:09:18 - 00:05:40:14

Dylan Roos

A best or worst travel story? That's a great question, James. My partner has some gripping stories. I would say my best I'll go down the best route in my mind is searching for. I've been to Africa a couple of times and one of the most amazing things I've I've actually seen a cheetah on down across like the plains of Africa, like bolt and get a an Impala.

00:05:40:14 - 00:06:02:14

Dylan Roos

A baby Impala. That was incredible. And then the other one was two lionesses hunting and killing a baby warthog like ten, 20 feet away from our car. So, like, we could hear the little squeals, we can see the crunching of the bones and it was like incredible. So I would say that that's probably my best travel story.

00:06:02:27 - 00:06:07:07

Wayne Mulder

Wow. That is a pretty intense story.

00:06:07:07 - 00:06:16:07

Dylan Roos

That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Love, love it over there. And it's a beautiful country, but the wildlife and the stuff we were able to say was just very fortunate of.

00:06:16:07 - 00:06:22:01

Wayne Mulder

Sure. So let me ask you the last of these questions. What is your favorite fitness or leisure activity?

00:06:23:01 - 00:06:44:09

Dylan Roos

I would say going to the gym, my favorite fitness activity growing up, I played sport at a pretty high level in Australia and so the sport that I played required me to be really, really fit. Like I like cardiovascular lay fit and so I hate running. Now my dad drilled running into me growing up.

00:06:44:09 - 00:06:45:06

Wayne Mulder

What sport was that?

00:06:45:26 - 00:06:52:12

Dylan Roos

It's only played in Australia if you probably haven't heard of it. Maybe you have. It's called AFL, Australian Football League.

00:06:52:18 - 00:06:59:01

Wayne Mulder

I googled it so I happened to know only because we were going to have this interview that I did appear to be only in Australia.

00:06:59:01 - 00:07:22:29

Dylan Roos

It is only in Australia the closest sport to it's actually played in Ireland where it's called Gaelic football. But if you if you YouTube AFL explained they put it out for Americans because it was starting to gain a bit of popularity. So it's like a ten minute video and explains the game perfectly. But basically running I'm going to I'm going to do the basically running like nine miles a game I think would be if you're playing in the midfield.

00:07:23:09 - 00:07:38:27

Dylan Roos

So I had to be really fit growing up. So there were times when my dad, like I was, you know, 12, 13, 14, I'm crying on a run just like I don't want to do it to be on the PlayStation or something. And I'd joke. So I don't run at all. Now I'm like blocked by get me into the game.

00:07:40:00 - 00:07:58:03

Wayne Mulder

I love it yeah I'm with you and same I played basketball and then soccer and soccer was the closest thing to like you said. I mean, basketball is kind of nice because it was short. I grew up in Indiana. So anything here in the States with Indiana, you had to play basketball, even if you're too short to play the game, which would be me.

00:07:58:03 - 00:08:02:27

Wayne Mulder

Yeah, but it was a lot of fun. But then the year we played soccer. My goodness, were you the heck out?

00:08:03:17 - 00:08:13:11

Dylan Roos

Yeah. Yeah. Basketball was such an easy sport for me because I probably similar to you because you played soccer. Basketball was fitness was easy because I didn't have to run up and down a field. It was just a basketball court.

00:08:13:21 - 00:08:27:18

Wayne Mulder

Exactly. So tell us a little bit of your story. I mean, we got a little bit of it here was sport and so forth. But tell us a little bit of your origin story, Delon and because I think I think as we weave through your story, we'll get to what you're doing now because of how it influenced it.

00:08:27:18 - 00:08:57:21

Dylan Roos

Yeah. Yeah. So I grew up with a, I guess a pretty unique upbringing. My dad was or is one of the most famous athletes in Australia. And so I grew up in footy club culture and grew up in Sydney, as I said, around the Sydney Swans, which was an AFL statement. So I grew up in, in the, in the footy club Changerooms really and with you know everyone asking me you know what was it like growing up with Paul Roos as your dad?

00:08:57:21 - 00:09:16:10

Dylan Roos

And it was like, well, he's he's just dad. He wakes up and drinks coffee and goes to work like any other dad. And I say him at home. So pretty normal for mine, but obviously for everyone else it was like, Oh wow, what's it like? So that drove me down a, you know, path of sport where growing up sport was everything.

00:09:17:20 - 00:09:36:10

Dylan Roos

You know, he he did a really good job of separating, bringing work home with him, which I think is pretty difficult when your work is plastered on the news every night and you know, if you lose on the weekend, it's like massive deal. But he did a really good job of like keeping work at work and coming home and being really present.

00:09:36:29 - 00:10:05:24

Dylan Roos

So yeah, I grew up playing sport, got to about 18, 19 and that's kind of when you go into professional sport in Australia, you there's no college system that prepares as you through the sport. So I didn't get drafted into Australian Football League, I was playing high level basketball as well. But I actually got a scholarship to Lemieux in Calif in LA but had a girlfriend at the time and decided to all stick or added Australia they'd like.

00:10:05:24 - 00:10:14:09

Dylan Roos

I think it was like two or three months later we broke up. I yeah, my Mom, Dad can I go to college. They're like, You're going to miss that boat. I was like.

00:10:14:09 - 00:10:15:15

Wayne Mulder

That ship has sailed.

00:10:15:26 - 00:10:34:26

Dylan Roos

Yeah, ship is out. So, but so 18, 19 year olds. No idea what I want to do with my life. Right? I'd grown up thinking I'd probably just do something with sport. And you don't whilst I had a lot of conversation. Well, yeah, it was. Dad had a lot of conversations with me around values and leadership and what you want to do.

00:10:35:05 - 00:10:51:00

Dylan Roos

It was always kind of just like, I'll just do something in sport. And then when I didn't get drafted, it was like, okay, what am I going to do now? And so I remember one of my nights was like, I'm studying sports management and I was like, Yeah, I could be a sports agent, right? I'll go. I'll just go do that.

00:10:51:05 - 00:11:10:17

Dylan Roos

So when hated uni like despise it, I was a pretty good student in high school but got to uni and just hated it. And, and so I was about 20 years old when my girlfriend and I at the time broke up and that was really when it was like, bang, I hate I hate my definition of rock bottom.

00:11:10:18 - 00:11:32:01

Dylan Roos

What I would say now that a couple more years have passed, probably one of my rock bottoms in that I just didn't handle the breakup well, did what most men do I had a cry for one night and was like, Oh God, I'm fine, get over it. Let's move on. And so that kind of started six months for me as a 20 year old.

00:11:32:01 - 00:11:51:23

Dylan Roos

Just really bad habits, bad behaviors. Thankfully, I never got into drugs, but I was drinking a lot, partying a lot, stopped exercising, stopped meditating. I wasn't journaling. I'd just everything that kept my mental health at a really solid level for the first 20 years of my life, I threw it all out the window and was staying up late.

00:11:51:23 - 00:12:08:24

Dylan Roos

And so I just felt fell into a really bad pit. And it took me, I didn't get out of bed for an entire week, and that was when I put my hand up and said, okay, I need to see a psychologist. Something is wrong. This isn't a hangover any more. I'm not feeling bad because I'm hung over. There's something else.

00:12:08:24 - 00:12:28:05

Dylan Roos

So I saw a psychologist and that's when he diagnosed me with depression and anxiety disorder. And that really was a pivotal, probably one of the most pivotal moments in my life because it was like, okay, I remember walking out of there going, Fuck, oh, this is good. I'm now aware of a problem. Like, I'm aware that something's going on and I can start to find solutions.

00:12:28:05 - 00:12:49:26

Dylan Roos

I was I was really big on not letting it define me. I was like, I'm not going to go down the medication route. I'm going to figure it out. Like, I was aware that I was here for a reason because I'd spent six months not taking care of myself, so no wonder I was depressed and anxious. Right. But the second piece, which a lot of men I think experienced as well, is that shame around.

00:12:49:26 - 00:13:04:02

Dylan Roos

What the fuck do I have to be sad about? Like what? What do I have to be depressed about? What do I be anxious about? Really like and just a lot of shame. And that was a long process to uncover that. And I remember telling my parents and they've come a long way, but they didn't take it very well.

00:13:04:02 - 00:13:24:13

Dylan Roos

Like like this is back in 2015 and we've come a long way. Just it just in seven years. We've come a long way in this conversation. But so it was just yeah, it was really difficult time for me in my life and navigating that. But that end up becoming, you know, the main driving force behind the work that I do now, which is mentoring young men.

00:13:24:13 - 00:13:47:25

Dylan Roos

Those two stories I told you, getting out of high school, going, what the hell am I going to do with my life? And then also experiencing, you know, bouts of depression and anxiety and not having the Resources Education Support Network had a good support. I always had a good support network, but I was 20 years old, so my mates were all 20, right?

00:13:47:25 - 00:14:09:22

Dylan Roos

So like they loved and cared for me. But what did they know about depression and anxiety and helping a friend through it? So yeah, those are the two main reasons why I was like, I really want to get into coaching and coaching young men and helping them through this transition phase from boyhood into manhood, from high school into college or into the real world.

00:14:09:22 - 00:14:13:15

Dylan Roos

And having these really cool conversations that I would have now with the boys.

00:14:13:29 - 00:14:33:27

Wayne Mulder

That's great. Yeah, I love what you're doing and there's a lot there that I can unpack and that I would love to get into. Let me first go down this little side road a little bit with the when you you talk about the battle and what you came through with depression, anxiety, and how you want to change the landscape for men and the mental health conversation as a whole.

00:14:34:07 - 00:14:42:25

Wayne Mulder

When you talk about changing that conversation, what do you see as some of the biggest issues with the current conversation that we have around mental health, especially when when we talk about young men?

00:14:43:08 - 00:15:03:15

Dylan Roos

Yeah. So I think there's two, two main issues that I see and one's a relatively new issue. I'll speak to the first one, which is, okay, we as men or boys, boys, men, we want to be men. Like that's like our it's like one of our main drivers is like, I want to be a man, especially when we're young men.

00:15:03:15 - 00:15:30:13

Dylan Roos

It's like we're trying to prove ourselves and we're trying to prove that we deserve adult that title of being a man. And so but but all men we want to be men and we want to be seen as men. And so the reason that men have a difficulty opening up and I speak as men, as myself included, why I had a difficulty opening up was the conversation is I want to be a man and any insult that we throw at each other, right?

00:15:30:13 - 00:15:53:25

Dylan Roos

It's like your guy, you're a pussy, your fag, your you throw like a girl. All these things, right, are attacks that are manhood, right? You've got a tiny dick like all these things are attacks on our manhood because we want to be men. So vulnerability falls into that category of will. Vulnerability means that I'm weak and to be weak means to be not a man.

00:15:54:03 - 00:16:11:24

Dylan Roos

And so that's why we don't step into vulnerabilities, because we think, well, it's it's what women do or it's it's a weakness. And I need to be strong. I need to be a man. And so that's why we don't do it. And so that shift in the conversation needs to happen at that level, which is we just need to shift the conversation to vulnerability equals strength.

00:16:12:03 - 00:16:27:26

Dylan Roos

And we can if we talk more to that point and we talk more about like, Hey, man, Wayne, how you doing? And you go, Yeah, good, mate. How, you know, I'm like, Yeah, good. You watch the game last night. Like, that's an easy conversation for us to have. But for me to say, Wayne, how you going? And you go, actually.

00:16:27:26 - 00:16:50:01

Dylan Roos

Dillon, it's works pretty stressful, man. The kids are getting older and I'm a bit worried about them. You know, one of them is making bad decisions and I don't like his friendship group or, you know, the missus is on my back like we're having marital problems I made last fall camp stressful at the moment that that takes a strong man to have that conversation.

00:16:50:01 - 00:17:11:14

Dylan Roos

That takes up a lot of strength. And so when you shift that conversation, all of a sudden we then want to lean into vulnerability because we say, Oh, I'm being a fucking man right now. I am. And I like change. And I'm manning up now. And by Manning up, I'm actually leaning into vulnerability and talking about what is going on in my life because those are really difficult conversations to have.

00:17:11:14 - 00:17:35:12

Dylan Roos

And the reason we don't is because they're difficult. And because of what I mentioned, vulnerability, x weakness weakness equals I'm not a man. And so we shy away from these conversations. And the second piece that I think needs to change in the landscape is the the awareness is there now. And I don't know if you saw the Patty in Bullet video, the UFC fighter that just kind of went viral in the last two weeks, I'm not sure.

00:17:35:13 - 00:17:57:06

Dylan Roos

For the UFC it was he basically came out his mate had committed suicide last week before his fight. He just came out and delivered a really nice message just saying men open up, you know, and this coming from a UFC fighter. So it was it was great to see an athlete use his platform that way. Yeah, but what upsets me now about the conversation is like the awareness is there.

00:17:57:17 - 00:18:18:11

Dylan Roos

Yeah, like we know mental health, like mental health has been a conversation for a while now, going to speak to a therapist has been a conversation for one of the awareness is there. And what I'm noticing now is we have this fake vulnerability, which is okay, cool. So, so I use the UFC video as an example because then everyone was posting it, right?

00:18:18:11 - 00:18:44:22

Dylan Roos

It went everywhere. So everyone was posting and everyone was like, reach out, talk. But it's become a conversation of like everyone else, talk about your stuff, everyone else be vulnerable. But I'm not going to be. Yes, and that's the problem. That's why the conversation hasn't changed anything in terms of statistics around suicide rates, in terms of mental illness, lowering, you know, and that those are complicated issues in itself.

00:18:44:22 - 00:19:01:16

Dylan Roos

But it's because everyone's putting on this. It's really easy for me to be like, Yeah, man, everyone else needs to just everyone needs to open up and be vulnerable and click share. And so I think I'm being vulnerable and I think I'm making a difference. And then when my mate reaches out to me goes, How are you doing, man?

00:19:01:16 - 00:19:24:18

Dylan Roos

I'm like, Yeah, Cooper, how are you? You know, you can always reach out to me and it's like but to change the conversation, we need men like you. We need men like me who are willing to have difficult conversations and willing to lead and say, Wayne, I'm not doing well. You know, can we have a conversation? I then open up to you and then you as a result, go fuck my mates, just like my friend just opened up to me.

00:19:24:18 - 00:19:42:26

Dylan Roos

I'm not going to leave him hanging in, just sharing. I'm going to share a little bit about what's going on for me, too. And so vulnerability breeds vulnerability. And so we don't need more awareness now. We just need more people walking their talk like actually have these conversations actually do it yourself. Don't look at like, Oh, I'm good, I'm good.

00:19:42:26 - 00:20:02:00

Dylan Roos

No, no, no. Like monks are good, right? Like very few people like good. Everybody's dealing. There are shit, sometimes small, sometimes big. Like just talk about it. And one thing that I shifted as well was I realized I would only talk to one of my friends about my stuff. So it would be like, Fuck, I need to give Harry a call.

00:20:02:00 - 00:20:29:10

Dylan Roos

And I'm struggling a bit. So I'd, I'd give Harry a buzz and I might ra and then I'd feel better. And then my other mate would give me a call and go, How are you doing, man? Yeah, good, good. So I then realized, fuck, I'm only opening up for one friend. And so we have a great connection. But now I'm starting to stunt my connections with my other friends and we're not getting that deep relationship and they're not able to be there for me, which is one of the best gifts.

00:20:29:10 - 00:20:47:27

Dylan Roos

Like how good does it feel to be there for a friend is almost nothing better is to be there for reminder. Fuck, I'm here for you and help them through something. And so I started having the same conversation multiple times purely because I wanted to walk my talk of like, okay, I'm having it over here, but I'm also having it here and here and here.

00:20:47:27 - 00:20:57:06

Dylan Roos

Even if I'm already feeling better and I'll just revisit the conversation I'll have because I want them to know, Hey, I'm opening up to you. You can come and open up to me.

00:20:57:27 - 00:21:22:15

Wayne Mulder

Well, but we could say nothing else in this entire podcast. We could just leave it right there, Dylan But we're not going to do that. But I know the focus of this and the focus of your work is young men, and we're going to get into what you're doing. However, what you just said applies, and I hope anyone listening this podcast goes back and you either listen to that or if you were tuning it out, you go back and listen to it again.

00:21:23:11 - 00:21:49:27

Wayne Mulder

What you just said there, Dylan applies so strongly to the law enforcement community because it's a community of alpha males, alpha females, people that don't need help. And yet we talk about the stigma in law enforcement. In fact, there's all these little hashtags stop the stigma in the stigma around law enforcement suicide. I personally know two officers in just the last three years that have taken their own life so it's it's a huge issue.

00:21:49:27 - 00:22:09:18

Wayne Mulder

And we talk about this. But when we talk about it, people like me and others in the that are on the fringes of the mental health conversation session, if you would, this is something where I have to look in the mirror. And I just had this I was just thinking about this today when we talk about social because it's funny when you ask about the UFC thing, I can take the social out of social media.

00:22:09:26 - 00:22:25:10

Wayne Mulder

I'm in my early forties, so that's something that is just not natural for me, but I'm trying to get better at it. And one of the things that I've been encouraged to do is to start reaching out to people. Like even today I reached out to an old friend on her birthday and just trying to start those conversations again because quite frankly, I suck at it.

00:22:25:24 - 00:22:35:08

Wayne Mulder

Yeah, exactly what you're saying right here is this could change it if we would just simply put feet to what we all know we have to do and show this vulnerability. So that is so powerful.

00:22:35:22 - 00:22:55:21

Dylan Roos

And and and I get it. I get it. I've been there. And it's and it's tough to have those conversations because it's like, all right, what do I like most? What do I say? Either it's like, you don't have to say anything. You're like, Hey, man, how you doing? And then you just listen and you just you say, Oh, man, that that sounds tough, brother.

00:22:55:21 - 00:23:11:10

Dylan Roos

Like, is it is there anything I can do for you? Yeah, mate, I'd love to go for a beer and actually see you. It's been a while. Okay, great. Let me. Let me check my schedule. I mean, let's go. But you don't. Don't get too caught up in like, I need to know what to say and I need to say the right thing.

00:23:11:10 - 00:23:32:17

Dylan Roos

I had such a I was so fortunate to have an unbelievable relationship with my uncle and my aunt. And growing up, whenever I was struggling, whenever I needed advice, I could just go to them. And very rarely did I have an answer or a solution to me, but I just knew that I could go to them. They weren't going to judge me, they were going to listen, and they were going to make me feel loved and supported.

00:23:32:19 - 00:23:52:21

Dylan Roos

And that was all we really need as people. That's all. We we don't really need solutions. And if we do them, then we probably are reaching out to psychologists and we hopefully are seeing therapists. But a lot of us just need to be heard. Yeah. And a lot of us just need to be sane in whatever struggles we're going through because we're all really hard in ourselves.

00:23:52:21 - 00:24:08:10

Dylan Roos

Oh, it's fine. It's not. It's not that big of a deal. Other people have it worse, you know, has life. I can't complain. That's such a common expression. It's like, yeah, you can. You can complain. You want to complain? Let's complain. What's going on? Yeah, exactly. Like, let's talk about it. Like, have you talked to anyone else? No, no, no.

00:24:08:10 - 00:24:27:25

Dylan Roos

I just get on with it. It's like you can do both. And this is what I talk about my work. And this is also, I think it's really important too because it does link back to the vulnerability is a weakness conversation. But for men the balance is a balance between heart and backbone. It's not one or the other because we tend to see one or the other.

00:24:27:25 - 00:24:44:17

Dylan Roos

We tend to see the the man who is really vulnerable. And you kind of look at him, you're like PAC man. He's kind of fallen apart. Or like, that's not really like I don't look up to him and I wouldn't want to trade places with him or we see the guy that just fucking mows on Moz, on Moz, on never has a heart to heart with.

00:24:44:17 - 00:25:01:23

Dylan Roos

Yo, you don't really know that much about him other than what he does for work and his favorite football team. And so the balance is in the two. It's, it's going on I go to for law enforcement I got a fucking job to do. And when I'm on the job, I'm on the job. But when I clock out, it's like, cool.

00:25:01:23 - 00:25:22:23

Dylan Roos

I got some shit talk about and I'd love to have a conversation and I'd love to unpack what happened today at work, right? Because it was fucking intense and I can admit that it was intense because I went through it and so did you. I ball. But that was fucked and I think also having some humor and and having fun with it too like it doesn't need to be this.

00:25:23:12 - 00:25:53:22

Dylan Roos

It's good to do the deep healing work like fucking oh, it's good and necessary, but if you're just starting out, you've got no idea. Like, I wouldn't, don't want to have a beer and be like, man, that was Einstein. What did you see? What happened? Like, dude, yeah, man, I couldn't. I haven't slept in a couple days, actually, and, like, it's tough, dude, mate, mate Matsubara I mean sleeping either and any can unpacking it can be a little bit light and fun and as you get better at it, then it becomes more like a healing conversation.

00:25:53:22 - 00:25:57:09

Dylan Roos

You know, I'm more of a let's really talk about this and unpack it.

00:25:58:05 - 00:26:24:18

Wayne Mulder

I was going to get to this question later, but you can't open the door for it. How important, in your opinion, how important is it when we talk about young men and we talk about men in general? And how important is community to that conversation? How important is them plugging in? Because and I guess the preface to that is we're in a time where we've never been more connected and yet we've never been more alone and we've just come out of a couple of years of being alone.

00:26:24:18 - 00:26:31:06

Wayne Mulder

You and I were talking about that offline. So how important is this idea of community when we talk about young men as well as older men?

00:26:31:06 - 00:27:06:18

Dylan Roos

Yeah, I mean, there's very little that's more important, right? We are. We've evolved in communities, in tribes and and so we all have these deep emotional, physical, psychological, spiritual need to belong, right? We all need to belong to something. And we know that loneliness actually precedes depression. So a good sign of you will eventually develop. Depression is like how connected are you?

00:27:06:29 - 00:27:35:11

Dylan Roos

And the average American has 0.9 close friends. So the average American has zero friends, basically. And it's, as you said, coming out of the last two years, it was it was one of the hardest things for those states and those countries that did hard lockdowns. I was in Melbourne. I couldn't go further than two miles from my house and I couldn't see anyone else from any other household.

00:27:35:24 - 00:27:55:24

Dylan Roos

So the only people I could see were the people I live with, which thankfully for me was my girlfriend at the time and my mum and dad. So I had a little bit of that. But the inaction and being connected to a community mean to other people. We need it as human beings. We need it. We are, we are these very interconnected people.

00:27:55:24 - 00:28:19:28

Dylan Roos

And one thing that we have lost to to answer your question in regards to young men, is this community way of bringing our young men up in the world or even just young, young girls, young people, right. We used to have a massive community, a massive village for thousands of years helping to up to bring up the children of that tribe in that community.

00:28:19:28 - 00:28:37:20

Dylan Roos

And especially when they get to adolescence, we realize, okay, now is the time. We need to spend more time with them. We need to get in their faces more and we need to take them from boyhood. We need to take them through a rites of initiation. And then after that they are now men. And we don't have any rites of initiation now.

00:28:38:03 - 00:29:05:13

Dylan Roos

And we're st we're paying the price massively because now we've got a couple of generations of uninitiated men trying to initiate their boys without any initiation processes. And so that's where I see I see like I try to focus a lot on positive masculinity and, and healthy masculinity and, and the things that men can do better, hold them accountable to them, but also help them see where we're kind of falling short.

00:29:06:02 - 00:29:21:18

Dylan Roos

And there's so many good things that men are doing in the world, like amazing things that men are doing in the world. And that doesn't mean that we are perfect down. There's still things that we can look back into the past and say, What can we do better and what have we lost? And we've lost touch to the community.

00:29:21:24 - 00:29:51:12

Dylan Roos

We've lost touch to the right passage, and we are now paying the price really dearly. And we've got all these modern problems that have very quickly become just normalized, which I even the last two years. How normal masks came like overnight, just not I don't even want that. It's not even where you stand on it. Just how normal did it become overnight and then how normal did did mandating vaccines become again.

00:29:51:12 - 00:30:10:24

Dylan Roos

I don't wanna get into what side of it on but just it became so normal so quickly and and so when I look at it in terms of our boys, like, oh, they're just teenagers, that's what they're going through. He's in that phase now and it's like it's actually only a modern problem. This this teenage rift that we've seen in the last hundred years or so.

00:30:11:08 - 00:30:46:08

Dylan Roos

And before that, teenagers were pretty well supported. They were pretty well adapted. It's it was viewed in a lot of in a lot of traditional cultures as like a time period where you don't want to spend a lot of time and you want to once they hit that level, it's like, okay, how do we bring you now into adulthood and create relationships and now where it's really interesting, like obviously this is all my work, but it's just really interesting to witness the contradictions that we have as a society where we want men to grow up, but we want them to stay young and we're constantly reminding them that they are young and they're not a

00:30:46:08 - 00:31:02:05

Dylan Roos

man. But then they get to 18 and then it's like, You're now, man, and it's like what you've just told me for six years. I wasn't. And you've done nothing to prepare me for manhood. And now, because I'm 18, now you're saying I'm a man, but I don't even know what that is. What is a man like? How am I meant to show up now?

00:31:02:06 - 00:31:12:20

Dylan Roos

I don't get the story. So those are the key things which comes back to your question around community that we need to start to revisit and look at and put a higher importance on.

00:31:13:07 - 00:31:38:01

Wayne Mulder

Absolutely no. That's that's really very accurate and something that I have seen personally when we talk about getting them, unless they're fortunate enough to have it modeled for them, in which case sometimes that will help, but otherwise there's no actual conversation around it. And it wasn't with my dad. And I'm older, obviously, than you, and so I'm in that middle.

00:31:38:01 - 00:31:57:04

Wayne Mulder

So I'm in my middle or in my early forties. And even with my father, it was both my parents were together, so my father was still in the home, but he would disappear to the television. He had a television in the garage. It was the you know, you had to click the button. There was no phones. But he you know, he'd be out there with that little black and white television working on the vehicle for hours.

00:31:57:04 - 00:32:21:27

Wayne Mulder

So I grew up in a situation where my father was checked out a lot. A great man learned a lot from him. Love, Dad, but it was the beginning of what you're talking about now and now. Fast forward, sadly, the ones that kind of grew up out of that. Then, you know, with this 24 hour schedule and so forth, it's only gotten worse and that's not around or you've got no one modeling it for you and no one's really teaching you what it is to be a man.

00:32:22:15 - 00:32:40:27

Wayne Mulder

Contrast that there is also a big push and I know you've talked about a little bit with this whole toxic masculinity and so forth. So could you maybe just contrast for us a little bit between what people talk about when we say toxic masculinity and whether that's, you know, what what your thoughts are on that. But then what is the opposite side of that coin?

00:32:41:21 - 00:33:02:21

Dylan Roos

Yeah. So I don't I don't use the term toxic masculinity at all. And there's three reasons as to why. So first of all, it's a blanket statement and I don't so I don't like just blanket statements because you could say toxic masculinity and mean one thing. And I could be like, oh, yeah, I agree with that's a pretty good definition of what that is.

00:33:02:26 - 00:33:24:14

Dylan Roos

And then someone else can say it and it means the complete opposite, right? And so I don't like speaking in those kind of terms and I try my best not to across all aspects, use kind of these buzz words because who knows what I mean when I say that, right. I'd have to explain what I mean. So number one reason is, is that number two is what do we do with toxicity?

00:33:24:24 - 00:33:46:27

Dylan Roos

What do I do with toxic waste? We have to quarantine it and put it over here and wear hazmat suits. And it's you can't do anything with it. It just has to be in the corner. And we know you can't you can't do that to your psyche. You can't do that to parts of myself. I can't quarantine bad parts of myself because then it is going to come back to bite me in the US.

00:33:46:27 - 00:34:10:18

Dylan Roos

And so I don't use toxic messaging if that raised to in that I use wounded masculinity or yeah, I use wounded masculinity because then it's like, what can we do with wounds? Well, we can heal those. We can look at those, we can examine them, we can integrate them into our lives and learn from them. One of the one of the biggest problems we have with men is the only emotion we're allowed to express is anger.

00:34:10:27 - 00:34:33:17

Dylan Roos

And so all our other emotions get repressed or they get put in this toxic bundle. And then all of a sudden the only thing that comes out is anger. And so we can't do that with toxic masculinity. We have to go, okay, it's wounded or unhealed or whatever term, but let's integrate it and look at it and start to put in place things that are going to benefit men.

00:34:33:17 - 00:34:55:06

Dylan Roos

Because, sure, maybe toxic masculinity started off as we want men to take more responsibility. We want men to step out of this quote unquote man box. But then again, like, what do you define the man box? But so it's difficult. Robert Let's just say we want men to take more responsibility and we want them to show up as better versions of themselves.

00:34:55:09 - 00:35:15:27

Dylan Roos

Right. I'm all for that. That's that's my work. But immediately when you say toxic masculinity and I've been working in this space for, for for almost five years now, even I my walls come up when I hear that, even though I'm a little bit like aren't fucking like that. And what do you mean by that? And how are you about to attack my manhood and how you about to attack my masculinity?

00:35:16:07 - 00:35:32:09

Dylan Roos

Yeah, right. And, and I would say that I don't say it arrogantly, like I've been doing the work for five years, but I say it like as in I'm pretty well-adjusted to balancing the sides of the conversations and rather the average man really isn't to the average man is just walls up. What the fuck? Toxic masculinity. All right, here we go.

00:35:32:12 - 00:35:56:19

Dylan Roos

And all the stories start going off and they check out from the conversation and our goal is to have men checking into these very important conversation around, hey, men, we can do better. We can step up, we can become a hot led men and leaders in our community and for our family members. So that's also why don't use it is like if my outcome is to bring men into this conversation, I'm not going to use words to take them out.

00:35:56:19 - 00:36:18:29

Dylan Roos

And so I think a lot of the conversation is not about helping men. It's not not now. And I've been watching it, you know, under a microscope for some years now. A lot of the conversation is is an attack on masculinity, an attack on men now and people. You know, something we all know it's not it's not the it's about these and that.

00:36:18:29 - 00:36:41:28

Dylan Roos

And it's men can cry. And this is like, no, it's not. It's an attack on men. Now, for a lot of the conversation. Right. And so I won't stand for that. I won't stand for you attacking men and attacking my skin. And I won't stand for people attacking women or attacking femininity. These things are so vital for our existence, so vital for society to come together.

00:36:41:28 - 00:37:09:02

Dylan Roos

And that's the end goal is like, how do we come together and unify the sexes? How do we unify ourselves as a society when we are barking at each other's throats? And America, this is where America really stands at the at the forefront of being at each other's throats. Like everything. You can't just have an opinion in America and it not turn into like all your pro this your anti-vax, your your on your on the left, you're on the right.

00:37:09:02 - 00:37:27:22

Dylan Roos

Where do you stand? It's like, man, I'm. Why can't we just, like, chill out and have it be, bro? Like, relax. You know, Australia is very different in that regard in terms of only in the last two years as politics become a bit more of a a bit more like people are paying attention before that. Right. No one paid attention now last two years.

00:37:27:22 - 00:37:30:01

Dylan Roos

Everyone's like, hang on, what the fuck's going on? We need to fight.

00:37:30:02 - 00:37:34:24

Wayne Mulder

Well, I think worldwide, just for cover worldwide to the way those things happened.

00:37:35:11 - 00:38:02:03

Dylan Roos

100%. But in America it's like probably these antidotes for this against that, and it's like I don't want be against anybody, I want to be in conversation and in understanding of the other side so that if my point, if I am correct in what I'm saying, I should be able to have a conversation with you. And through logic, through communication, if for a reason gently empathetically bring you to my side of the conversation.

00:38:02:03 - 00:38:18:12

Dylan Roos

If if I've got good points. If I don't, I'm going to attack you. I'm going to attack you as a person. I'm going to do all these other things because my arguments aren't going to stand up under a spotlight. Right. And I think a lot of people have a lot of arguments that don't stand up in the spotlight and it just becomes easy to demonize the other side.

00:38:18:27 - 00:38:39:05

Dylan Roos

So it comes it becomes it's really easy to say it's the patriarchy fault. That's not it's the patriarchy fault. It's toxic masculinity that we have all these problems and you're like, What the fuck is the patriarchy? What the fuck is toxic masculinity? What are you talking about? Stop talking out of your ass. You want to help men? Yes or let's help men.

00:38:39:06 - 00:38:51:26

Dylan Roos

You want help society? Yes. Okay, let's help society. But stop using these fucking words. You just. You just throw around and get retweets and likes and go viral. It's like you don't making any sense and you're not helping the conversation. Yeah.

00:38:52:12 - 00:39:12:06

Wayne Mulder

Man, that is that is so accurate on so many points. And you are absolutely right that if you have the way it should be is that we can sit down and have a beer. There may be some things we agree with, things we disagree with. There's things we can agree to disagree on. But that's the way conversation gets pushed forward no matter what arena we're talking about from masculinity on.

00:39:12:06 - 00:39:31:19

Wayne Mulder

So now I think that's important. And I think one of the things I see with people that banter and one of the reasons I brought it up is when I hear people banter these things around like toxic masculinity, patriarchy, so forth, a lot of times what they're saying they don't like are the same features of masculine. And I love the way you talk about wounded masculinity.

00:39:31:19 - 00:39:54:12

Wayne Mulder

That's kind of a sidebar. But the things that they say they don't like about someone who is masculine are the same basic makeup that makes people run into burning buildings or go dry. You know, the things we want a man to do and you know that they were made to do, if you would. You are exactly the same things that then get thrown out.

00:39:54:26 - 00:40:26:02

Dylan Roos

Toxic masculinity is the reason you and I aren't speaking German right now, right? Yep. Simple as that. Like we, I get really emotional and upset by this because. Because the fucking arrogance we have as a society in today's world and the why we, we do complain about these little things and we and we hate it's so frustrating because it's like you don't understand how difficult life has been up until the modern world.

00:40:26:06 - 00:40:47:18

Dylan Roos

Right? Like up until the last hundred whose life was so fucking hard. Like the poverty rate has has risen. The poverty line story has risen significantly. Our way of living has risen significantly. Men were dying like in their forties only a hundred years ago. Women weren't living that long. Life was shit. It was shit. We fought. Look at the 20th century.

00:40:47:18 - 00:41:13:06

Dylan Roos

20th century was horrible. Two world wars, then more wars. On top of that, closer to the 21st century. It's like life wasn't good in the past and you want to look back in the past and just go, Wow, look at how shit it was and look at this and look at that. And it's like, Yeah, man, there was some things that we weren't doing well culturally and societally but let's, let's look at how great we moved society in the right direction and let's look at the great things.

00:41:14:02 - 00:41:33:06

Dylan Roos

The only like, oh, I see about this is dialog with war. Women had to step up so much with war because all the men left and all the women then had to go into the workforce and take care of the families like they fucking stepped up too. So what do you mean? It just. It really bugs me because it's like men went, fought and died for our freedoms.

00:41:33:06 - 00:42:00:14

Dylan Roos

And because my generation hasn't seen horrible wars and hasn't seen world wars, they don't understand that. And they don't get the sacrifice. And they don't I don't even get it right. I'm talking about. But I don't even understand it. Yeah. And so I get upset when there's that. Yeah. Real scrutiny, all of these things that as you said you put it really well.

00:42:00:14 - 00:42:19:01

Dylan Roos

It's like you love it in other areas. Like you love it over here. You just you just something bad happened to you over here or you've got some sort of trauma or a bad story running in your mind. And so you want to make these buzzwords, you know, your your beck and call. It's I just yeah. It gets me up up and about.

00:42:20:18 - 00:42:41:08

Wayne Mulder

Love it. No, it's it's powerful stuff though and I really enjoyed this conversation. So let me kind of segway. We've kind of talked about the age differences and so forth and even some generational thing. So what are some of the things that you're seeing that young men are struggling today? And I'm asking this question come from the context of, as we talked about, that we have a lot fathers that are listening to this.

00:42:41:08 - 00:42:47:03

Wayne Mulder

So young men that are coming up this next generation as well as maybe what those little younger than me are have gone through.

00:42:47:13 - 00:43:22:09

Dylan Roos

Yeah. So so this is not to downplay mother's role or women's role again, but the most important role in a man's life is the father or a father figure. It's so fucking important. Right. And we know that because the number one contributing factor to long term criminality, delinquency, antisocial behavior is fatherless illness. And we look at society as a whole and we say the fatherlessness rates in America and worldwide are so high now.

00:43:22:20 - 00:43:41:03

Dylan Roos

And I was reading, I was writing in a book. I wanted to grab the statistic before I jumped on, but I forgot too. It's something like there's a third of young boys now growing up without any men in their lives. Because you look at the education system, the education system is dominated by women. So they going to school, they don't have any male teachers either.

00:43:41:18 - 00:44:07:01

Dylan Roos

And so men are struggling as a whole with this lack of male leadership and male role modeling that that they look to and go, oh, that's the kind of man I want to be. And so they really struggling with stepping into manhood. And I don't know if you're familiar with the term the Peter Pan syndrome, but the Peter Pan syndrome is the man child.

00:44:07:01 - 00:44:28:24

Dylan Roos

It's the man child, right? It's the kid that doesn't want to grow up. He looks out into the world and says, I don't want to take on responsibility. That's really what young people, a young man are struggling with now is because they they look out and we as a society are the fattest we've ever been. Our suicide rates are at an all time high and mental illness rates are at an all time high.

00:44:28:25 - 00:44:48:11

Dylan Roos

Divorce rates are at an all time high. Job satisfaction is at an all time low. And so when I come home from work and I'm a father and I'm a little bit overweight, I'm super stressed out, I don't have great intimacy with my partner and my son. And I see that as a son and I'm watching that. I don't want to fucking grow up.

00:44:48:24 - 00:45:11:03

Dylan Roos

That's what growing up into, is that? No, I don't want that. I don't want to be miserable working a job I hate stressed out, worried about my even like worried about my finances in a relationship where I don't love it. Like I don't have any intimacy, I don't want any of that. And so as a society, we're doing a really poor job of role modeling adult hood to our young people.

00:45:11:09 - 00:45:33:09

Dylan Roos

And so they don't want to grow up. Yeah, and who can blame them for it? Who can blame them? So the role of the father in being like, get your house in order and get your stuff together. You don't have to be Arnold fucking Schwarzenegger and you don't have to be skipping into the house every night. Right. Because this is this is the balance of the heart and the backbone piece.

00:45:33:09 - 00:45:53:12

Dylan Roos

Again, it's like you need to use some balance. Like sometimes it's okay to come home stressed out, but how can you regulate yourself in the car before you come in? But how can you sit in the car, take 5 minutes to meditate or breathe, leave the stresses in your car, come in, give your wife a massive kiss like go play with your son.

00:45:53:12 - 00:46:19:20

Dylan Roos

Do these things that inspire our young people, our teenagers, to want to grow up. Otherwise it is going to stay young. And and we see that really often in play like PlayStation or gaming and drinking and anonymous sex and all these things that are so much, quote unquote, fun and pleasurable, but you do that at night. 18, 19.

00:46:19:20 - 00:46:34:17

Dylan Roos

Okay. You're 18, 19. Now, as you do it at 22, 23. All right, you 22, 23. You do that at 30 years old. You doing that at 40 years old? No one wants to be no one wants to be May. No one wants to be no one wants to be your partner. And you lack a lot of meaning in your life.

00:46:34:17 - 00:46:50:03

Dylan Roos

You haven't taken on you haven't voluntarily taken on responsibility, which is what we as men need to be doing, is voluntarily taking on responsibility. You haven't done these things, so you get to 30 and you go, Autumn to turn my life around now. But you've got 30 years of bad habits. You've got no idea what the next step is.

00:46:50:03 - 00:47:17:21

Dylan Roos

You don't know how to take on responsibility. Your you are overweight, your health is compromised, you're stressed out, you're losing your hair, all these things. So we can we can say, like, what is the issue that young men are facing and kind of dissect like what they're actually going through. But if we role model that better as fathers and as mothers and as a society, then a lot of the issues would would dissipate in at the teenage level.

00:47:17:21 - 00:47:37:06

Dylan Roos

And as the young man level, they would actually they would be surface level problems because we addressed the root cause, which is role modeling adulthood, role responsibility. And when we do that well, then a lot of the problems our kids are facing, especially our young boys, would either not stick around for very long or disappear altogether.

00:47:37:06 - 00:47:59:16

Wayne Mulder

Yeah, no, that's that would help at a societal level. What do you think when you talk about it? So where my mind goes, as you were having this conversation and I know we had talked about like my son is 20 years old and I've known it's shocking for me the way I grew and I don't know how it was in Australia and America.

00:48:00:20 - 00:48:17:03

Wayne Mulder

I'm assuming it would be the same the I couldn't wait to get my driver's license. In fact, I had my in the state I was in, you could get your motorcycle endorsement before you could get your driver's license. So I had my motorcycle endorsement for a full year before I could even drive a car. And then I started driving and I was 15 years old.

00:48:17:12 - 00:48:21:19

Wayne Mulder

That's the soonest I could get it. And that was just the pretty much the day I got it.

00:48:21:26 - 00:48:22:06

Dylan Roos

Yeah.

00:48:22:20 - 00:48:41:25

Wayne Mulder

I have talked to more and more fathers and more and more friends around my age who have sons around my son's age, and they're like, Well, he doesn't want to drive a vehicle. He doesn't even like his driver's license. He doesn't. I've never even seen it. It's shocking to me. Yeah. What do you think is kind of the cause of that and what kind of advice or what could we suggest to some of these fathers who may be listening?

00:48:42:13 - 00:49:05:08

Dylan Roos

Right. Great question. I'm glad you asked that. We are living in a disease of comfort right now. That is the the modern disease, disease of comfort. So, again, empathetically put yourself in your son's shoes in Australia. I was the same like I was. Give me my license. You can't fucking white 16 years old. You get your learner's permit in Australia, which I think at 15 or 15 and a half it's in America.

00:49:05:08 - 00:49:24:21

Dylan Roos

It's probably state by state as well. Yeah, but 16 years old permit. So I have to drive for my mom and dad for a year. I have to do 120 hours. And then at 17 years old in New South Wales, I could get my license and yes, same thing as a hump to get it. And so okay, why, why why is this issue happening that you just spoke about?

00:49:24:21 - 00:49:39:15

Dylan Roos

It's like, okay, well, why did I want my license? I wanted my license to be a little bit more independent. I wanted my license. I could go see my girlfriends. I could go hang out with my friends, I could go drive around. So I didn't have to wait for mom and dad to get their stuff together, to take me anywhere I could go to play basketball.

00:49:39:15 - 00:50:14:11

Dylan Roos

I could go do my own thing at 17 years old. So why do young men not want their independence? Well, look at their lives now. And they're so connect kid online that I don't need to leave my house to see my friends anymore so I can just jump on. And and this is why their relationships very solid either is because there are a lot of it's just built online so I can jump on PlayStation and play for three or 4 hours a night with my mates and.

00:50:14:11 - 00:50:29:09

Dylan Roos

Never have to leave my bedroom. Okay, I'm hungry. What can I do? I can order Ubereats to my door and I can just walk to my door and get food and walk back to my bedroom. I don't have to leave the house. I don't have to wait for mom to cook me food. I don't have to go out and cook my own food.

00:50:29:10 - 00:50:48:02

Dylan Roos

I could just stay in my room and order food to my house. Okay. I'm getting little bit older. I want to talk to girls. All right? Two, two ways. Now that this is going one, I can just jump on Tinder or Bumble or fucking any dating app. And I can just swipe, swipe, swipe, swipe. Eventually find a girl, she'll come over.

00:50:48:02 - 00:51:03:22

Dylan Roos

I don't leave my room for that either now. Whereas when you grew up and when I was young, I had to leave my house and go and develop myself and go and get rejected 100 times before I could figure out this is how you approach God and this is what you taught him. Now I don't have to. I can just say, Hey, what's up?

00:51:03:22 - 00:51:25:03

Dylan Roos

Yup. Good, good. Want to come over? Okay, cool. Right. And the other option, if that's not happening is I can just watch porn now so I don't even have to put in the effort of talking to girls to get the satisfaction of an orgasm. I can just watch porn and the porn now is so different to when I was growing up.

00:51:25:08 - 00:51:56:26

Dylan Roos

And definitely when you were growing up, you probably had a nudie mag or or magazine and you had and you had some photos. Now it's like graphic video content that we're watching and from 13 years on. So yeah. Or even 12 years on. Probably so there's no desire to be independent because all of my surface level needs are being met and because I've never had my AP level needs met, I don't know that it's possible to have those needs met.

00:51:56:26 - 00:52:15:00

Dylan Roos

I didn't I don't know that it's actually way better for me to go and hang out with my friends in person. I don't even know that because I'm not even doing that anymore. And I'm happy to just stay at home because it's easier to be in bed by PlayStation Channel online, do these things, whatever. So that's the it's the disease of comfort.

00:52:15:00 - 00:52:46:07

Dylan Roos

Back to back to what I said, it's lives have become so damn comfortable, so, so comfortable. And it's to the detriment of all of us. There's a detriment of every single member of society. Right. And comfort zones now. And young men are just going smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller. And, you know, you want to you want to leave and so this links back to our conversation around the awareness piece that we were talking about before as well.

00:52:46:07 - 00:53:04:27

Dylan Roos

So the conversation now has been centered around your feelings, your feelings of most important thing to you. Now, how do you feel? You feel okay? Yeah. Like, oh, you don't feel good. Stay home. I feel, feel, feel like I go see a therapist, go see psychologist, get medicated, feel, feel, feel free, feel right. Right. It's going too far, in my opinion.

00:53:04:27 - 00:53:26:22

Dylan Roos

I work in this space. I'm a mental health advocate or like. But now for our young people who are only growing up in the era of feelings and your feelings matter more than anything else. When I wake up and I don't feel like working out, I go and fuck and work out. It's not about how I feel because I know that if I work out, I'm going to feel better for the next 23 hours of my day.

00:53:27:02 - 00:53:51:00

Dylan Roos

So I suffer for an hour deliberately, intentionally, so that for 23 hours I feel better as a young man or young person or someone who's struggling right now. They wake up and go, I don't feel good today. I'll try again tomorrow. I don't feel good today. I'll try again tomorrow. So the actual secret to happiness or the sacred happiness, but the secret to a meaningful and fulfilled life is voluntarily putting yourself into suffering.

00:53:51:06 - 00:54:08:21

Dylan Roos

Because if you don't voluntarily do it, it'll fucking come knocking on your door and you'll just suffer as a result of that. Yeah. So we understand that because we were kind of brought up. I'm 28 now, so I was and my dad, my dad was a professional athlete. Like, as I said, he was a club member if I said it on the podcast or before we were chatting.

00:54:08:21 - 00:54:20:28

Dylan Roos

But yeah, he was, he was dragging me out of my bedroom going, We're going for a fucking run, mate. And I'm going. I don't want to. I don't want to that I don't want to I don't feel like it. I don't feel like and he's like, I don't give a fuck you're coming for a run, right? Let's go.

00:54:20:28 - 00:54:37:23

Dylan Roos

And he would put his shoes on and run with me and push me and push me. Push me. And it was great because now I've got amazing habits. Now I just had my newborn son born. I'm going to the gym at 9:00 at night after working 8 hours a day after being up since six after sleeping for 4 hours.

00:54:37:23 - 00:54:54:09

Dylan Roos

After having to cook for my partner who's still in bed, having to do the laundry, do all that shit and last fucking hit. And then it gets to 9:00 at night and I'm like, I'm going to the gym because if I don't, I know it's impact my mental health. If I don't, I'm the way that I look at it now and I'm only five, six days into being a father.

00:54:54:09 - 00:55:13:15

Dylan Roos

I'm like a little boy. He's watching me. He's watching every little fucking thing. He's he's seeing if dad's a little bit over why they seeing it. Dads on the TV ate ice cream he notices everything and so I'm really aware of that as well. And so this so bringing back the disease of comfort is affecting us on such a deep level.

00:55:13:24 - 00:55:30:21

Dylan Roos

And people don't want to talk about it because it's like, oh again, oh, what do you have to be sad about? What do you have to be anxious about? Look at how great your life is. Yeah, but you want to live a really great life. You have to go and do painful and difficult things and and go out into the world and forge yourself.

00:55:31:03 - 00:55:55:28

Dylan Roos

This is the cliché. Women are born, men are made right. Men are fucking forged through fire, iron sharpens iron. And so we have to bring that conversation back into the feeling conversation. It's not get rid of the feeling conversation, but it's let's bring back the backbone that you grew up in than my dad grew up in. Let's bring that back and let's integrate that conversation, because what are we doing right now?

00:55:55:28 - 00:56:13:06

Dylan Roos

Like everything's linked, right? What are we doing that we're saying that's toxic masculinity. We're saying, oh, that's that's toxic. So you need to get rid of that. Like that is fucking affecting our young men so much now because they don't have any backbone. They don't have any, not any. But they have very little ability to step into discomfort.

00:56:13:16 - 00:56:35:24

Dylan Roos

Right? Like my program. So my program, prince. The King, I work with young men. One of the most common things men like. I'll get them on the quiet call yesterday with the 19 year old. Okay, man, I've got like my self script down pat now and I, you know, I'm like, okay, talk to me. RA Yeah, I'm struggling with these and strong that I I'm confidence and you want to able to communicate I call man well he's my program I can help you with that I work with that how does that feel?

00:56:35:24 - 00:56:51:09

Dylan Roos

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It sounds good. It's like numbing. Like, this is your time to voice your concerns. Like you have any concerns. Like, you're probably pretty nervous, right? To do the work. That's. That's not. Yeah, I'm a bit nervous, and I'm like, I'm all these things that you mentioned to me. You want to work on those, right? It's like, Yeah, I want to work on those things.

00:56:51:09 - 00:57:05:21

Dylan Roos

I'm like, Cuba. I will like if nothing changes, nothing changes. And we can work on those things together or you can stay the same and be where you are and his time. Okay. Yeah, okay. I get that. So I got a bye. So you're in a I mean. All right, cool mango. Get my it's a hot ticket item.

00:57:05:21 - 00:57:34:08

Dylan Roos

I said boys can't afford it. So put your mom on the phone, mate, and I'll chat to her, which I'm on the phone and she comes on and she's like, I'm like humans. I've got the buying power and he's in the background going, No, I don't want to do it. And so, so and this is really common. This isn't like a one client thing, like it's all really common and, and I got off that call and I was like, okay, so here is and I'm still because this happened just yesterday, right?

00:57:34:08 - 00:58:00:20

Dylan Roos

But it's symbolic of we're so, so adverse to uncomfortableness that I can't even I can't even say no to you. I'll say yes, jump off and have my mum tell. You know, as a 19 year old. Right. If and this is so for me I'm I'm so big on parent responsibility like and in parenting is the hardest fucking job in the world.

00:58:00:20 - 00:58:09:09

Dylan Roos

And I have so much empathy and compassion for parents and it's not a judgment thing. I'm only five days in like people call this and like Dylan, give it a year. Give it to you easy, like, well, I will.

00:58:09:09 - 00:58:10:18

Wayne Mulder

That's just the way people listen.

00:58:10:26 - 00:58:26:05

Dylan Roos

I'm I'm going to struggle I hundred percent put my hand up. I'm going to fuck up. I'm going to make mistakes. I'm not perfect. I can't wait. I said this just couple days. I can't wait to get my son a mentor when he turns 1314 because he's going to ten, 13, 14, and he's going to stop listening to me and I get that.

00:58:26:12 - 00:58:43:15

Dylan Roos

But how can I put in place other people that he will listen to? So I get it. But I put on worst most of the parts I got you all now, taking away your son's power for him to stepping out of his comfort zone and just learn to say no, he can't even do that. He has to have Mum come in and not right.

00:58:44:00 - 00:59:06:08

Dylan Roos

And that's like really concerning looking at a whole life. Like your life is in front of you, you're 19 years old and your whole life ahead of you and you're so uncomfortable with doing the work because it's I say to my man, it's uncomfortable. You've got to step out a comfort zone and you're going to we're going to do some work together.

00:59:06:08 - 00:59:26:13

Dylan Roos

It's going to be a bit uncomfortable, but you're going to develop your confidence, your communication skills and your purpose. And these are three things that you say you want to work on. Yeah, I do. But we're so averse to stepping into comfort that we can't even base things we know we need to face. And we can't even even just say no to want to do that.

00:59:26:13 - 00:59:43:02

Dylan Roos

What we have to get mum to say no. And it was just like, man, young men are struggling worse now than they were to like. I started this work two years ago during COVID. They're worse off now than they were two years ago. During COVID, they're like, because that's not a background of one off that is forming. I either know about three or four phone calls that when the exact same way.

00:59:43:02 - 00:59:56:14

Dylan Roos

Yeah man I'm going to do the work jumps off mum give me a call. I said no and I'm like have him call me and tell me no because he said yes to me. So you have him call me and tell me no and I'm fine for him to say no, but have him call me. He's in. He's an adult.

00:59:56:14 - 01:00:04:18

Dylan Roos

What do you want him to be an adult? Do you want him? What's he going to do? Have you call up his boss in five years time and say, Sweetie is sick this morning?

01:00:04:25 - 01:00:28:13

Wayne Mulder

Like and sometimes they do like we've I've literally spoken to people with law enforcement academies where they pretty much had to make a rule that mom is not allowed. You know, if something happens, the enforcement academy and mom shows up, they have a conversation about it and nothing against mom. She may be trying to do the right thing, but you are an adult coming into a profession where you're going to be given a badge and a gun.

01:00:28:21 - 01:00:33:24

Wayne Mulder

And we probably need you to be able to make some decisions. You know, you.

01:00:33:29 - 01:00:50:17

Dylan Roos

Said that's incredible cause I dated I dated a couple. I a teacher. And she would say that if the for me, right growing up, you're probably the same. I forget my homework. I forgot to do it. I don't have a phone to text mom and dad. I just didn't have the means to it. So I get to school.

01:00:50:17 - 01:01:07:08

Dylan Roos

Where's your homework? I forgot I didn't do it. All right, you get a detention, okay? You got to stay after school and finish it, okay? There's consequences for my action now. And my girlfriend at that time was teaching. I think if five and six is so ten, 11 year olds, they've got their phones. So they would get to school.

01:01:07:08 - 01:01:31:15

Dylan Roos

Fuck, I forgot my homework. X their parents mum would either email the teacher and be like Hey, just letting me know so-and-so forgot his homework but I'm going to bring it in today. A drop off or like. Or they would rush in and rushing to school and hand the homework. And it's like it's like the role of the mother is the sacrifice or role of stepping back and saying no like you do now have to have to take responsible for your actions.

01:01:31:15 - 01:01:40:28

Dylan Roos

And that's really uncomfortable for mothers. It is. I get that that is it's something that as fathers, we probably don't feel an uncomfortableness to that way. It's like, no, you rough shit.

01:01:40:29 - 01:01:41:27

Wayne Mulder

You did it and you.

01:01:41:27 - 01:01:58:13

Dylan Roos

Know, like you did it, right. But it is difficult for mums and I recognize that and that's, that's where we're different. Men and women are different and that's their thing. But that is the role that women twice stepping back on. Now mate, you, you've got your homework or you need to call your boss like that. I can't believe that happening at a police academy.

01:01:58:18 - 01:02:00:26

Wayne Mulder

That's bad. You really gotta.

01:02:00:28 - 01:02:02:03

Dylan Roos

Know. Got that bad.

01:02:02:27 - 01:02:21:27

Wayne Mulder

It's bizarre. Some of the things we see, it's like, yeah, wow. Well, let's quickly, I want to definitely talk about what you're doing. So I want everyone to check out Dylan Roos coaching income. But tell us a little bit about these coaching programs. We've talked about your why and what kind of led you to doing it, but tell us a little bit about it.

01:02:21:27 - 01:02:28:07

Wayne Mulder

I look like you may even have some different ones as well, like Prince, King, the Brotherhood, Keys to the Kingdom. So yeah, I'd love to hear more about it.

01:02:28:19 - 01:02:53:03

Dylan Roos

Yeah. So my like flagship program is My Prince the King program. And so that can run in one of two ways. I can run as a one on one mentorship. So you get access to the course and one on one mentoring along the ten weeks or until until the young man finishes the course, which usually takes about 12, 12 or 13 weeks because they're, you know, they put things off either.

01:02:53:03 - 01:03:15:04

Dylan Roos

Young man. Exactly. So that's my prince, the king mentoring. And then and then the course runs by itself, which is also equally just as good. That's the masterclasses get sent out every week. It gets drip fed them there's journal daily journal prompts it's you know I've developed a couple of frameworks where, you know, the prince to king method is really about self-awareness, self-evaluation, masculinity and leadership.

01:03:15:04 - 01:03:33:00

Dylan Roos

There. The four areas that I think really, you know, young men need to be looking at and self-awareness and self-evaluation come first because that is the period of time when you're the least self-aware, right? You think back to when you were 16, 17, 18. It was like you got no awareness of how you're showing up in the world.

01:03:33:00 - 01:03:56:29

Dylan Roos

And so really a lot of the work is about them coming to terms with where they currently are at and then evaluating and moving through. And then on top of that, we focus a lot on what it means to be man and the leadership aspects that can develop them, develop their confidence, you know, emotional intelligence. We talk about resilience, the conversation we had today around vulnerability with strength and how vulnerability will lead to more resilience.

01:03:56:29 - 01:04:18:27

Dylan Roos

You know, that's all in the course, all in the one on one program. And so that's my prince to keen work. And then I've got a group coaching container because I want my goal. My Y is to impact as many men as possible. Right. So the one on one work, obviously it's, it's a pretty large investment. Then I've got the course, which is a lot less, and then I've got the Brotherhood, which is a group coaching.

01:04:18:27 - 01:04:39:21

Dylan Roos

So that's, you know, that's for the price of a coffee a day. You can come in, join a group of other young men ranging from 14 to 23, 20 for weekly group calls and the guest speaker every month. So I've got those things and then I've just got a little, you know, little Masterclass series for the boys, which again, is more and self-awareness.

01:04:40:12 - 01:05:00:20

Dylan Roos

You know, I've as I said, I've developed some framework so that's around developing a good, you know, the king's routine, I call it, and, you know, the keys to the kingdom being these things that if you do every single day will really help you. Movement, meditation, planning, these things will really help. So yeah, I've got a bunch of different stuff up there for, you know, hopefully, hopefully for everyone.

01:05:00:20 - 01:05:18:26

Dylan Roos

I'm still building out more and more content, more and more programs so that I can reach more and more boys. Because you would. He'll, he'll the boy and we he'll the man. And we don't have to go through all the shit that probably you and I have had to go through and have to heal. And we can be preventative and and, you know, really help our young boys turn into young men.

01:05:19:12 - 01:05:38:09

Wayne Mulder

Yeah. No, that's that's powerful. And even I mean, we've talked about, you know, some of the advantages we had, you know, years ago and how it's kind of changed. And and then, of course, what happened in 2020 and so forth. But the reality is, is some of this I wasn't taught and I had to come into it myself and I had to learn to be uncomfortable or learn to, you know.

01:05:38:09 - 01:05:50:00

Wayne Mulder

So this is so powerful. Just out of curiosity, do most of given the large age range there, do most of the kids come to this on their own or do most parents are the ones both paying out to you? Okay.

01:05:50:03 - 01:06:08:09

Dylan Roos

Yeah, it's mostly parents. I've got a couple of boys, right. Chat and they're awesome. I love that. I love that boys are reaching out. I'm going to start to target boys more with my low price point staff just to get them involved in aware. But yeah, it's mainly it's mainly parents that are like, my son needs this. And I'm like, yeah, he does like, let's go, let's do it, let's work together.

01:06:08:18 - 01:06:32:07

Dylan Roos

So I have, you know, to, to main clients, which is, you know, the boy that is struggling, he's like struggling confidence, habits, purpose of a three big things. And then the other boy that's doing well but just understands or the parents understand like yeah, he needs a mentor, like he needs someone to take him to the next level or I just want him, he's doing well and, and we're in a fortunate enough position where we've the money so great.

01:06:32:07 - 01:06:47:12

Dylan Roos

I'd love to get another person around him because he's not listening to me, he's doing alright, but he's just not listening to me anymore. And so it really is for everyone. You know, I developed the program with the thought in mind of what did I need at that age? What, where was I struggling at that age? What if I could go back in time and tell myself things?

01:06:47:12 - 01:07:00:11

Dylan Roos

What would I do? I'd just hand him this program and he got 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 year old Dylan. Take this. 19 year old Dylan, 20 year old Dylan. Like, take this. And and you won't suffer as much as you have a lesson.

01:07:00:11 - 01:07:01:17

Wayne Mulder

We all learn with time.

01:07:01:24 - 01:07:02:16

Dylan Roos

Exactly.

01:07:02:25 - 01:07:15:24

Wayne Mulder

Well, Dylan, I really appreciate this. Again, that website is Dylan Roos coaching income. Of course, there's going to be a link in the show notes. Check that out. And of course, you're on all social media. It looks like Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn, even Tik Tok.

01:07:16:07 - 01:07:21:11

Dylan Roos

So I am on Tik Tok and I get better at it. I need to get better at posting on there. Actually now that you say it, you.

01:07:21:11 - 01:07:38:05

Wayne Mulder

And me both, I actually just set up an account last night and I don't know why. But anyway, one final question. We I've got so many notes here. We could go on and on. I really appreciate you coming on because this has been a great conversation. We didn't even get to some of the subjects I wanted to get to.

01:07:38:25 - 01:07:59:06

Wayne Mulder

It's fascinating and it's so needed in this current time. But let me get down to just one final question that I ask all guests that come on here. However, the question has to be tweaked a little bit just because of the nature of what we're talking about. So normally I ask, what is that one take away? The one thing that law enforcement officers can do, they'll make a difference in their personal life.

01:07:59:06 - 01:08:12:27

Wayne Mulder

And I think for the purpose of this conversation, I'd tweak it a little bit to say, what is that one take away? So we talked about all these good things, but let's boil it down to one action step that they can do today that's going to help them or their sons, their family in their personal lives.

01:08:14:01 - 01:08:17:23

Dylan Roos

Go have an uncomfortable and difficult conversation.

01:08:18:10 - 01:08:18:24

Wayne Mulder

I love it.

01:08:19:06 - 01:08:38:02

Dylan Roos

Very practical, very simple. Just one just one difficult or uncomfortable conversation. It can be with your son. I think one thing, too, like we think we have to show that we've got our shit together as men and as fathers or as mothers. And it's like, No, man, if you can come home and talk to your son about that, you're teaching him that it's okay for him to come to you with his problems.

01:08:38:02 - 01:08:42:00

Dylan Roos

Yeah. So go have a difficult or uncomfortable conversation.

01:08:42:12 - 01:08:46:21

Wayne Mulder

I love that. And that is so true. And that gets back to that vulnerability as well.

01:08:47:03 - 01:08:47:27

Dylan Roos

Yeah.

01:08:47:27 - 01:08:57:04

Wayne Mulder

Dylan, thank you so much. I appreciate you coming on. DylanRoosCoaching.com is the website and I really appreciate your time today. Thank you.

01:08:57:04 - 01:08:59:15

Dylan Roos

Thank you so much mate, I had a great chat Wayne.

01:09:00:04 - 01:09:17:00

Wayne Mulder

And that does it for this week's The Interview Room. I hope you really enjoyed it. Another great guest will be with us again next week. We have a great lineup for you here over the next few weeks and I'm through the rest of the year, so you're definitely not going to want to miss a single episode. We also have Morning Roll Call, which typically comes out on Monday mornings.

01:09:17:00 - 01:09:35:03

Wayne Mulder

However, I may change my mind and who knows? It could come on different day of the week, but morning roll call, check that out as well. That's just me talking to you and it gives us a few minutes to go over something, anything from news or something actionable that matters, hopefully to you. One last favor, please, please, please.

01:09:35:03 - 01:09:53:18

Wayne Mulder

Whatever service are looking at or whatever service you are watching this on, you're listening to this on. Please leave us a rating and review five stars. That would be the appropriate number of stars if for some reason it's not five stars, in your opinion, or if it is, tell us why we would love to hear it. I would love to get your feedback.

01:09:53:18 - 01:10:10:21

Wayne Mulder

In fact, I'm going to start reading some of these reviews on the air. I been looking at some of the ones on Apple Podcasts and thank you, thank you, thank you for the phenomenal reviews and thank you all for taking the time to listen to this. I hope you're enjoying it. You all have a safe week out there and I will see you next week in the interview room.

01:10:10:21 - 01:10:29:16

Wayne Mulder

I will see you next week in the morning roll call. But in the meantime, I'll see you On The Blue Line.

Wayne Mulder
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