PODCAST: “Serving your Community shouldn’t mean Sacrificing your Sanity” with Lindsay Faas | The On The Blue Line Podcast with Wayne Mulder
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Meet this Weeks Guest: Lindsay Faas
Based in British Columbia, Canada, Lindsay is a Clinical Counselor specializing in Trauma Therapy, and the Owner/Director of ThriveLife Counselling & Wellness. With over a decade of experience working with trauma patients, Lindsay is determined to make important resources more accessible to first responders with the launch of Beating the Breaking Point, and her weekly podcast Behind the Line, available everywhere you listen to podcasts.
Show Notes from This Episode
EPISODE OVERVIEW:
This episode of the On the Blue Line podcast hosted by Wayne Mulder features an insightful conversation with Lindsay Faas, a clinical counselor specializing in trauma therapy. Lindsay is the owner and director of Thrive Life, a counseling practice in British Columbia, Canada. In this episode, Lindsay shares her expertise on resilience, particularly as it relates to first responders. Listeners will learn about the importance of mental health resources for those in high-stress professions and hear a powerful anecdote from Lindsay that illustrates resilience in a profound way.
This episode also touches on the behind-the-scenes of Wayne's journey, including some of the challenges he's faced over the past year. Additionally, Wayne discusses the importance of consistency in personal growth both on and off the job, offering listeners practical advice and encouragement.
Listeners can expect to come away with a deeper understanding of trauma therapy, the significance of resilience, and practical strategies for maintaining mental well-being in demanding careers.
PODCAST OVERVIEW:
We know first-hand the struggle of trying not to take the job home with us and let it affect our families. We know the toll the law enforcement career can have on marriages and relationships. And we also have been frustrated by the lack of authentic leadership in our agencies. This Law Enforcement Podcast was designed to help you overcome the mental toll of the law enforcement career and the negative effects it can have on your personal life.
Hosted by active-duty law enforcement, we bring you two weekly podcasts. On Thursday, in The Interview Room we sit down with amazing guests who provide actionable advice on leadership, mental health, and relationships from their lived experiences. On Monday, in Morning Roll Call, you and I enjoy a cup of coffee and discuss current events, offer encouragement, and discuss practical steps for achieving the life we were meant to live.
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CONNECT with Lindsay:
• WEBSITE/ PODCAST: https://www.my.thrive-life.ca/behind-the-line
• INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/lindsayafaas/?hl=en
• FACEBOOK: https://www.facebook.com/LindsayAFaas
AFTER the episode:
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• EMAIL me your feedback: Feedback@OnTheBlueLine.com
• Get the eBook, “How the law enforcement makes you cynical and what you can do about it” by Wayne Mulder.
On The Blue Line was founded and is operated by active-duty law enforcement to fulfill the mission of helping law enforcement overcome the mental health toll of the profession to become better leaders & protectors on & off the job.
We strive to create a world where law enforcement life expectancies are equal with the general population.
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TRANSCRIPTION OF EPISODE. Please note this is a new service we are offering and there will be spelling, grammar and accuracy issues. This transcription is offered as a convenience to our listeners, but at this time it is not guaranteed to be accurate.
00:00:34:03 - 00:00:55:01
Wayne Mulder
Welcome to the On the Blue Line podcast with Wayne Mulder. And I am your host. You guessed it, Wayne Mulder. Many of the topics discussed on here are from a law enforcement perspective, and because that is my vocation. However, this show is about helping you become the person you want to be on and off the job. So we have a variety of topics and a variety of guest.
00:00:55:03 - 00:01:15:12
Wayne Mulder
be sure to follow us on Twitter and Instagram and on the Blue Line podcast. Check out our website at On the Blue line.com. And please email me. the old email address that I used to give does still work. However, if you just want to email me directly, it's wing at on the blue line.com. And yes, I read those emails and we're going to start doing a feedback section as well.
00:01:15:12 - 00:01:43:19
Wayne Mulder
So I'd love to get your feedback. And I will definitely, either respond to you or it's something we may use in a future show when I go over that. And then podcast listeners, those of you who listen on streaming platforms, please. It's a big help on Spotify, Apple Podcast, if you click follow for me and on Apple Podcasts, if you'd be sure to, like and rate the show five stars, please, if, if you love us than five stars if you hate us.
00:01:43:21 - 00:02:10:03
Wayne Mulder
Yeah, five stars would be great, you know, if you would do that. So I'd greatly appreciate it. And then lastly, know that all all the podcasts are available on video, on YouTube and on Rumble. So, real quick, I want to introduce you to this week's guest. Let me start with if you haven't gone back and listened to, last week's podcast, the one, where I kind of go over what's been going on for the last year, some of the medical challenges and so forth that I went through.
00:02:10:09 - 00:02:40:02
Wayne Mulder
I encourage you to do so because then you're going to understand why we're launching things the way we are and the why I'm doing things the way that I am. But one of those things is every guest that I have ever done an interview, their content will go out to you. I feel bad, I apologize, but right at the in there, when I, ended up needing to go into surgery and so forth, there was, few, three guests remaining who I had recorded great episodes with them, really good content, and it never came out to you.
00:02:40:03 - 00:02:42:11
Wayne Mulder
So I do apologize to those guest
00:02:42:11 - 00:02:57:10
Wayne Mulder
now. So the next three weeks are actually going to be older content really this format. A lot of the questions, the things we discussed, it's all evergreen. So these really could release at any time. In fact, if I didn't tell you, you wouldn't know that these have been recorded a long time ago.
00:02:57:10 - 00:03:33:00
Wayne Mulder
But I always like to be fully transparent with you, and I appreciate you guys found along on this journey. So, this is great content. This week's guest is Lindsey Foss. She actually tells us anecdotal story at the end of this podcast that you are not going to want to miss. In fact, after hearing that from her, I've actually used it and told people about, the great work she's doing when I do, when I speak to some of the, academy classes and so forth about this idea of resilience, the what she gives as an illustration of resilience, I think is probably one of the best ones, that I personally have ever heard.
00:03:33:00 - 00:03:57:03
Wayne Mulder
So you are really going to enjoy that? she's based in British Columbia, Canada. Lindsay is a clinical counselor. She specializes in trauma therapy and is the owner and director of Thrive Life, which is a busy counseling, practice, which, of course, there's links to all that in the show notes. She's got decades of experience working with trauma patients, and she's determined to make important resources more accessible to first responders.
00:03:57:04 - 00:04:18:06
Wayne Mulder
You, me? With the launch of Beating the Breaking Point, which is a weekly podcast behind the line that is available to everybody. So, she's got the podcast behind the line. She's got Beating the Breaking Point, which is this project she has. Be sure to check both of those out. Everything is in the show notes. So without taking any more time, here's this week's guest.
00:04:18:06 - 00:04:22:02
Wayne Mulder
Finally, Lindsay Foss.
00:04:22:03 - 00:04:24:09
Wayne Mulder
Well, Lindsay, welcome to the show.
00:04:24:11 - 00:04:27:14
Lindsay Faas
Thanks so much for having me, Wayne. It's such a delight to be here.
00:04:27:16 - 00:04:39:20
Wayne Mulder
I am so glad we got to connect. somebody, that a mutual friend. I think her, acquaintance of some sort put us together, and I'm so glad they did, because you're doing some great things, and, we're going to have a really good conversation.
00:04:39:22 - 00:04:54:00
Lindsay Faas
Yeah. I always love meeting other people who are working with these populations and having similar kinds of conversations. It's so fun that that we get to learn about how how all of us are trying to just make a difference for people that are making a difference. So I appreciate the work that you're doing as well.
00:04:54:02 - 00:05:11:03
Wayne Mulder
Well, thank you so much. Yeah, it's it's been refreshing not to go down a tangent already because I was gonna go down a different road. But you're so right. Just in the few years doing this, since 2019, to see so many people that I either didn't know what they were already doing or have come online since then, it is just such a neat thing to see.
00:05:11:05 - 00:05:13:03
Lindsay Faas
Totally. Yeah. Agreed.
00:05:13:05 - 00:05:21:22
Wayne Mulder
So let me start, as I always do with what I call my get to know your questions. Some are very easy here, so we'll start with the simplest of all of them. Is it coffee or tea?
00:05:22:00 - 00:05:25:14
Lindsay Faas
Coffee, always. Tea is gross. It's just flavored water.
00:05:25:16 - 00:05:27:19
Wayne Mulder
I love the way you think.
00:05:27:21 - 00:05:31:08
Lindsay Faas
My husband is the tea guy, so we have this argument a lot.
00:05:31:10 - 00:05:32:16
Wayne Mulder
Really? Okay.
00:05:32:16 - 00:05:33:09
Lindsay Faas
Yes.
00:05:33:11 - 00:05:42:08
Wayne Mulder
So for you, is it just like, black coffee or do you like a particular type of coffee or. I see from the facial expression he's watching on YouTube. It's not black coffee. So what is.
00:05:42:10 - 00:05:59:06
Lindsay Faas
Your favorite coffee? there's like a very specific French vanilla creamer that needs to go in it. Otherwise it just tastes like dirt. Although I value the people who are brave enough to drink it black. and and I am a bit of a snob. And I'll go for a Starbucks caramel macchiato any day of the week.
00:05:59:08 - 00:06:14:20
Wayne Mulder
Okay, well, this there is a funny thing. I think people that like particular flavors of coffee, that's where Starbucks comes in. Yeah, I'm more of a dark coffee drinker myself. I do like it black, but I do like Starbucks dark roast coffee because it has more flavor.
00:06:14:22 - 00:06:20:06
Lindsay Faas
Yeah, totally. Well, and I like Starbucks mostly because it's just consistently the same every time.
00:06:20:08 - 00:06:23:19
Wayne Mulder
Yes. And that is huge when it comes to, the perfect cup of coffee.
00:06:24:00 - 00:06:25:13
Lindsay Faas
Yes.
00:06:25:15 - 00:06:32:20
Wayne Mulder
So let me ask you, not so much store or so forth, but more of that relaxing place. What where's your favorite place to have that drink?
00:06:32:22 - 00:06:57:08
Lindsay Faas
Okay, so in my house I have this little corner in my living room and I have this bright, like, really bright yellow armchair that I chose the yellow because it makes me just so happy. And I live, in near Vancouver, so we have a lot of rain and like, gloomy days for really long stretches of time. So finding like small inputs of sunshiny joy is actually really important in my life.
00:06:57:10 - 00:07:12:08
Lindsay Faas
and it our back wall looks out over this really nice ravine area out over trees. You can hear frogs. So I like to sip my coffee in my yellow chair with the window cracked open a little bit, where you can hear the birds and the frogs. And that is my spot.
00:07:12:10 - 00:07:23:06
Wayne Mulder
Now that's awesome. Now, Vancouver is that, gray, cloudy winters. Kind of like the Midwest. Or do you guys get a little bit of respite from that in your winters.
00:07:23:06 - 00:07:44:02
Lindsay Faas
I think Seattle, yeah, it's a lot like the Seattle weather. We're only like three hours north of Seattle. we're actually, like a 20 minute drive to the border from our house. similar kind of vibe. So just a lot of gloomy, rainy, and then we, like the last couple of years, have been hit with some pretty solid snow storms, but that's new for our area.
00:07:44:02 - 00:07:52:01
Lindsay Faas
So we have like, zero infrastructure to handle it. Yeah. Which is always really interesting when you're like stuck in your house because there are no snowplows.
00:07:52:03 - 00:08:01:11
Wayne Mulder
right. Well you have that part of it. And then if you have a lot of those gray, gloomy days, you get that whole seasonal affective disorder, like, that's a whole whole struggle that we're in the Midwest.
00:08:01:13 - 00:08:20:19
Lindsay Faas
Yeah, yeah, I mean, we I grew up in a different part of Canada that didn't have so much of the gloom. So even though it was like so, so cold in the winter, at least the sun was still shining. And for sure moving out to the West coast. the seasonal affective piece is way worse out here than it ever was back there.
00:08:20:21 - 00:08:23:19
Wayne Mulder
Yeah, that's that's the way it is in the Midwest as well.
00:08:23:21 - 00:08:24:09
Lindsay Faas
Yeah.
00:08:24:12 - 00:08:27:14
Wayne Mulder
So do you have a best or worst travel story?
00:08:27:16 - 00:08:59:04
Lindsay Faas
Ooh, I've got a pretty solid one. so my husband and I did a five week trip to Africa before we had kids. and we were doing the, like, Serengeti safari thing. And, you camp when you're on a multi-day safari and, like, not like the pretty fancy nice camps that people see in movies where it's like, really nice and there's doors and things, they're like tents that we brought and they throw up, and then bathrooms.
00:08:59:04 - 00:09:03:15
Lindsay Faas
Did you know there's plumbing in the Serengeti? There is plumbing in the Serengeti. So we've gone to the bathroom in the middle.
00:09:03:15 - 00:09:04:16
Wayne Mulder
Learning something new.
00:09:04:18 - 00:09:19:08
Lindsay Faas
It's a new thing. I didn't know either. And so we had go to the bathroom in the middle of the night. and we were walking back to the tent, and we were having this conversation, about, like, a totally different thing. I kept hearing this weird noise in the night, and I was telling them about it, and this like, did you hear this?
00:09:19:08 - 00:09:41:07
Lindsay Faas
Didn't matter. We get back in the tent and we had just zipped it up and right next to the tent, like right beside our heads, you hear this roar sound. And it was the chuff of a lion that had stopped us back to our tent. We beat it by about three seconds. and in the morning we woke up and we went out to the.
00:09:41:11 - 00:10:07:18
Lindsay Faas
There's like a, spot where all of the groups set up their dining area. And so there's this dining gazebo thing. And so we're telling our driver, we have that lion outside of our tent. Us they keep saying, no, no, the lions, they're far away. That didn't happen. And then turns out there was a guy that was up all night in one of the cook shelters who watched the whole thing happen, and he goes, oh my God, you guys had a lion outside of your tent last night.
00:10:07:18 - 00:10:09:15
Lindsay Faas
You barely missed it.
00:10:09:17 - 00:10:10:08
Wayne Mulder
Oh my gosh.
00:10:10:10 - 00:10:30:09
Lindsay Faas
You know. Yeah, that's I think my craziest one. It was a real close call. And what was really crazy is you're so tired from like, the heat and being watchful when you're in safari all day that we were so tired that that happened. And then we actually just fell asleep and didn't even think that hard about it, which was actually the weirdest part.
00:10:30:11 - 00:10:35:19
Wayne Mulder
That says a lot about human exhaustion right there. Right? A lot of what we're going to talk about today. Yes.
00:10:35:21 - 00:10:41:11
Lindsay Faas
I don't even know how you do that, but I don't think I could do it again. But for sure, at the time, that was what happened.
00:10:41:13 - 00:10:51:10
Wayne Mulder
That is incredible. That is probably one of the best answers I've gotten to that question. So but do you have a favorite or most meaningful nonfiction book?
00:10:51:12 - 00:11:15:11
Lindsay Faas
Ooh, favorite or most meaningful? I mean, I probably could come up with a list of like ten. I think probably the one that has mattered the most to me in the last handful of years has been, Brené Brown, Dare to Lead. I love her, and I love a lot of her work. Her work would probably be half of my list of top tens.
00:11:15:12 - 00:11:39:12
Lindsay Faas
but that work specifically was really meaningful at a very specific time in my life. So I own a clinic, here in Langley, which is just outside of Vancouver. and we're a practice that has grown quite a lot. and so I had picked up the book came out the same year we opened. And so I had got it for myself for Christmas two months before we opened our doors.
00:11:39:12 - 00:11:55:22
Lindsay Faas
And we're inviting in this team of people that I had never managed before, and I had no idea what I was doing. and it was such a lifesaver in setting up a culture that I love. So much and cherish so much here. So that was a really foundational piece for me.
00:11:56:00 - 00:12:01:11
Wayne Mulder
That's great. That is. And you know, it is funny how it seems like the right book finds you at the right time. I don't know.
00:12:01:11 - 00:12:02:03
Lindsay Faas
Oh my gosh.
00:12:02:03 - 00:12:03:20
Wayne Mulder
I could say that so.
00:12:03:22 - 00:12:05:00
Lindsay Faas
Totally.
00:12:05:01 - 00:12:11:20
Wayne Mulder
The last of these questions. What is that place that brings you the most piece? What's your favorite spot to kind of stop, breathe, and enjoy life?
00:12:11:22 - 00:12:32:15
Lindsay Faas
That's a solid good question. so I have this, a couple of relatives that live on Vancouver Island. and we go over a number of times every year as a family. But I also make myself go there once a year by myself, and I call it a work retreat. and it is it's a lot of work, but it's also lovely.
00:12:32:17 - 00:12:57:12
Lindsay Faas
and they have a house that is on a lake, and it's just beautiful. And they're the kind of people who really love to take care of people and like, host. And so when you go, like, they don't let you help to cook and they don't let you do dishes and they plan meals around things they know you love, they often will have my favorite coffee creamer in the fridge when I arrive.
00:12:57:12 - 00:13:22:10
Lindsay Faas
And my favorite wine, like, ready. and it's just like, it's like a holiday on speed. And even if you're only there for like 3 or 4 days, it just feels like the most calming because I don't have to be all of the, like, wife and mom and grown up things for a little bit because they just like, do all of the grown up things, and that is the most refreshing thing.
00:13:22:12 - 00:13:25:20
Lindsay Faas
It's kind of like an all inclusive, but I didn't have to pay for it.
00:13:25:22 - 00:13:36:08
Wayne Mulder
That is awesome. And like you said, it be even a step better because the things that you love, that you know are specific to you are already a god. Or so.
00:13:36:10 - 00:13:37:13
Lindsay Faas
Yeah.
00:13:37:15 - 00:13:47:14
Wayne Mulder
So from here, I would love to hear kind of your origin story. Maybe tell us a little bit about you. Who is Lindsay? And you can start really wherever you want kind of leading towards what you're doing now.
00:13:47:16 - 00:14:15:11
Lindsay Faas
Totally. That's awesome. So my name is Lindsay and I work here in Langley, BC, Canada. I am a clinical counselor, so that's the work that I do primarily. and within that work, largely what I specialize in is trauma therapy. and so I, I've spent a lot of years working in domestic violence. I've spent a lot of years working with really complex trauma.
00:14:15:12 - 00:14:34:20
Lindsay Faas
in my community, I am known for doing a lot of the more complex ends of the work. So the stuff that a lot of people get tripped up by and get stuck in, those are the clients that get sent my way, which is work I really love doing. It is none of what I totally expected that I would be doing.
00:14:34:22 - 00:15:00:09
Lindsay Faas
as a kid, I always loved doing things that were helpful, and I was always really, like, determined and organized. And I thought that would lead me into some kind of helping something. But one of the things that I did in grad school was I had said to my colleagues at the time, I'm going to really like, invest in learning everything I can about trauma, because it's the stuff that grosses me out the most.
00:15:00:09 - 00:15:21:21
Lindsay Faas
Like, I'm not great at like, blood and guts and gore. I don't watch those movies. I get nauseous when I hear the stories. So I'm going to, like, hyper expose myself to it. Because if, like, if I can do the hardest thing, then everything else will feel easy. And so at the time, I thought, I'll end up doing something else that's easier, but I'm going to start there and then it'll make everything else easier.
00:15:21:23 - 00:15:41:04
Lindsay Faas
and then I kind of fell in love with it, so I that's what I do. And I listen to all of the blood and guts and gross stories from all kinds of people about all kinds of parts of their lives. and I love that I get to just be like a witness and a journey alongside person to some of those stories with people.
00:15:41:06 - 00:16:04:10
Lindsay Faas
So that's what I do primarily. I also am a mom to two kids. My kids are eight and six. I am a wife to my musician, stay at home husband who is amazing, and thankfully does all of the things I don't have time to do. because I also do a lot of things that I just go, that sounds fun, so let's try that.
00:16:04:11 - 00:16:23:16
Lindsay Faas
And so my work has become a podcast that I have, and a course I created, and a whole bunch of other things that I had no plans or intentions of doing. But I keep having these moments of that made me really mad. So let's find a way to solve that problem or that really irritates me. So let's see if we can fix it.
00:16:23:18 - 00:16:27:06
Lindsay Faas
And these things just keep like evolving out of that.
00:16:27:08 - 00:16:53:05
Wayne Mulder
I love that and it really shows, I think I think any time you come into anything in life with kind of like a heart of wanting to help you intuitively start finding the ways that you can, like it's almost like the universe or whatever your belief system is kind of draws you into these opportunities. I love how you talk about coming into a, a career where you're talking about, you know, the blood and guts, as you said, are the most traumatic things.
00:16:53:05 - 00:17:11:19
Wayne Mulder
I was very similar to that in that I really that wasn't my how I grew up, a very simple upbringing, very, you know, and so even going through like the law enforcement academy, I had no idea what to expect or even if I could handle like that, you know, death and these kind of things, because I had been very fortunate to not be exposed to it.
00:17:11:21 - 00:17:29:19
Wayne Mulder
And yet you find sometimes that that, you know, it's kind of a gift to be able to go into those moments and help people speaking. what drew you initially into wanting to help victims? Because when you first came out of this or into this career field, I guess better said, it was to help people in domestic situations.
00:17:29:19 - 00:17:32:20
Wayne Mulder
Correct. What kind of drag you into that line of work?
00:17:32:22 - 00:17:59:01
Lindsay Faas
So again, I really liked the things that felt hard and complicated. And I was lucky enough to be offered an internship at a, nonprofit organization that works specifically with women who are fleeing domestic violence, as well as, early childhood experiences of sexual abuse. And so that's where I started, and I moved from an internship there straight into a job offer there.
00:17:59:03 - 00:18:25:19
Lindsay Faas
and it was work I loved doing, so, so much. But nonprofits also super not sustainable financially. So private practice kind of emerged out of that. And so I continued to do a lot of the same kind of work, just in a different kind of a setting. And that grew because as you start having clients who have a good experience with touching the really hard, vulnerable stuff, they go and tell their people about that.
00:18:25:19 - 00:19:00:01
Lindsay Faas
And suddenly I was seeing a whole range of people. I also work with a couple of contracts, so like, workers compensation, kinds of groups are different state to state and province to province. But our version of that I have a contract with, and through that, I started getting a lot of our RCMP officers and local police as well as corrections and paramedics and all kinds of different groups that are, are coming and have WorkSafe claims because of work related exposure to traumatic events and experiences.
00:19:00:01 - 00:19:04:06
Lindsay Faas
And that became increasingly demographics I was serving.
00:19:04:07 - 00:19:16:00
Wayne Mulder
That's interesting. And that was actually where I was going to go next, is how that transfer happened. So you didn't have any like law enforcement in the family or close that, like this was completely organic to what you were to the population you were serving?
00:19:16:02 - 00:19:31:11
Lindsay Faas
Yeah, yeah. It was I have no background, like we have no military members in our family. We have no, there is nobody my aunt owns a bridal store, right. Like that's like, we got it up and, it's it was.
00:19:31:11 - 00:19:33:09
Wayne Mulder
A landscaper to cop, so I completely.
00:19:33:09 - 00:19:51:12
Lindsay Faas
Understand. Right? Like, it's an it's kind of an interesting way to get the start because I have some clients who are like, well, how can you know what we go through? And, and to some extent I can't. But in some ways, that's actually part of what I offer is when you are surrounded by people who know what you know, they're also tainted by what you know.
00:19:51:14 - 00:20:12:07
Lindsay Faas
And it's hard to see that there's like life outside of that. And so having people in your life that can go like, you know, there's some parts of life that aren't gross all the time, right? can be a really helpful reminder because we can lose track of that when we're really, really stuck in the muck of what people and life look like when you do this kind of work.
00:20:12:09 - 00:20:32:16
Wayne Mulder
Oh, that is well-said. And something I, I highly resonate with because that a lot of times I credit coming to this career field later in life, having different experience says it's not something I started at 20 years old, and I see a difference in mindset between those that started in their 20s and those that, you know, had other life experiences and then came into this career field.
00:20:32:18 - 00:20:46:08
Wayne Mulder
what were the some of the things that in broad strokes, obviously not specifically, but what were some of the things in broad strokes that you were seeing as, you started seeing the first responder population come to you? You know, what were the things that you were noticing that were coming out of these conversations?
00:20:46:10 - 00:21:08:17
Lindsay Faas
Yeah. So, I mean, there's some really common threads and and it's interesting because when I started more of my passion projects around this, like the podcast and the course and things like that, that we can talk about it a little bit. it came out of this place of like really common features that were showing up across first responder demographics.
00:21:08:19 - 00:21:31:19
Lindsay Faas
So I would have police officers come in and they would talk about these challenges they were having, as if there were unique to police officers. And I would giggle because I'm like, I'm seeing six other people today and ain't none of them police officers. And I have like this Groundhog Day. I've had this conversation six other times. and it's fascinating because everyone feels really like alone and isolated in a lot of those challenges.
00:21:31:19 - 00:22:08:08
Lindsay Faas
And yet my experience of them as the listener to all of them is that you're not all that alone. for sure. I think there is a really common thread about training, across a lot of first response and frontline work populations, pieces about having been trained really well to answer other people's mental health crises and, and, you know, crisis situations, but not necessarily being trained particularly well in what to look for inside of ourselves as our own indicators of not doing okay.
00:22:08:10 - 00:22:32:05
Lindsay Faas
and not knowing what to do if I identify that I'm not doing okay. I think a lot of organizational kinds of stress and trauma is happening. We've got some really broken systems that really don't serve the people that are serving very well. and so I know I had a client who shared, you know, there's this poster at my, at our station, and it's almost like one of those, like, you make sure.
00:22:32:05 - 00:22:53:08
Lindsay Faas
Right. And so it's like a person and they're pointing and they're like, it's you. and it said something to the effect of like, make sure you're watching for PTSD. And then, you know, they're in my office and they're they're on a WorkSafe claim. And we're talking about how what you have is PTSD. And they're like, you know, I've passed that poster every day.
00:22:53:08 - 00:23:18:17
Lindsay Faas
And what's fascinating is every day I was confronted with the question of, well, do I have PTSD? And what's fascinating is no one ever told me what I should be looking for to tell me that I have PTSD. Probably I could have caught this way sooner, but didn't until it was so far down the rabbit hole. And now here we are all this way later, where I'm in therapy, having to, like, pull myself back out of this because no one trained me in what to look for.
00:23:18:17 - 00:23:51:17
Lindsay Faas
So yeah, you put it on me to look for it, but how do I know what that looks like to look for? How do I know what the indicators are? How do I know when I'm supposed to be doing something about that? Or waiting it out longer and hoping that it just goes away? Right. And so there's a lot of pieces, I think that that systems can be doing better in supporting people and understanding what they need to be looking for in themselves, as well as when different kinds of supports might be useful to them within that spectrum of time.
00:23:51:19 - 00:24:13:02
Lindsay Faas
and then I think that there's just a lot of other like, really interesting pieces. Like, since Covid, staffing has been such a tricky piece across most first responders, workplace is at least here in Canada, I'm aware of, and the degree of added burnout that that then creates for the people that are left behind has been a huge feature.
00:24:13:07 - 00:24:37:11
Lindsay Faas
Yeah. so, you know, like, it's no one thing, it's actually been really fascinating for me across all of the first responders I've ever worked with is I have yet to have any who come in and say it's because of this one event that happened, right? I'm struggling because of that one call. It's almost never the calls, like the calls are a part of it.
00:24:37:11 - 00:25:03:07
Lindsay Faas
And there can be, you know, pieces of the calls that are like the straw that broke the camel's back. But it's actually almost never the calls that are really the problem because to some extent, the calls are the stuff that you kind of signed up for. Like, I knew when I was going to be a police officer, that it was going to mean that I would like maybe have to pull my gun someday, and that maybe I was going to be in a situation where someone else pulls a gun on me and that I would see gross things and I'd have to interact with death.
00:25:03:07 - 00:25:24:18
Lindsay Faas
And and I wasn't sure how I would do with that, but I knew that that was what I was signing on for. I didn't necessarily know that I was signing on for doing all the right things, and then having my employer book me off on leave because I'm being investigated for how I handled that situation. I didn't know I was signing up for coworkers, selling each other out.
00:25:24:19 - 00:25:48:21
Lindsay Faas
I didn't know I was right, like I didn't know I was signing up for all these other things that are peripheral to the actual job description that end up actually being the stuff that's tends to like gradual degrade and lead us into more vulnerable places for things like operational stress injuries and organizational level trauma and all of these other features.
00:25:48:22 - 00:25:54:07
Lindsay Faas
And that's where I think we get it mixed up. I think a lot of people think it's the call. It's not the call.
00:25:54:09 - 00:26:18:17
Wayne Mulder
That is so good. I could I could literally go for different directions here and have these conversations with you. that, that is, that is really, really good. And yeah, we're seeing the same staffing issues down here in the States. And it's compounded not only by the mental health, the, you know, what happened during the pandemic and then also just, you know, the overall issues that are going on down here in the States, you know, that I'm sure, the whole world has heard about.
00:26:18:17 - 00:26:39:17
Wayne Mulder
So, yeah, that all being said, though, I think where I want to start is where you ended, which is on that whole, there's something where you talk about how neurological changes can happen from a consistent high stress exposure, and I would love to know more about that. But where I wanted to go with it is exactly what you were touching on, because I you are so right.
00:26:39:19 - 00:27:01:19
Wayne Mulder
It isn't the high stress events now, I've been in some that certainly affected me. That's even through this podcast where I started realizing, you know, I needed to do some self-care, some self work, because I had an incident that I often talk about was an incident that involved, like gunfire and so forth. And I didn't even realize that it had bothered me until 4th of July down here in the States.
00:27:01:21 - 00:27:25:06
Wayne Mulder
And I'm sitting there listening to fireworks, and then all of a sudden I'm grabbing my wife's hand and thinking, you know, trying to. Yeah, where's my firearm at? Because thinking that, you know, all sudden I was taken to that moment. But that being said, that's not what presents the most stress. What presents the most stress is, like you were saying, those those in agency things, scheduling changes, like, for instance, I'll jump on my soapbox for a second.
00:27:25:08 - 00:27:47:06
Wayne Mulder
do we have you have two thirds of your agency working afternoons or evenings, and yet you always schedule training at 7 or 8:00 in the morning because we don't want to inconvenience the training department. So you've got guys working tell, you know. So then the answer is, well, we're going to let them off at 1 a.m. so they can be at training at seven while simultaneously time limits the lack of sleep.
00:27:47:08 - 00:28:04:04
Wayne Mulder
That is the problem. So we create the very stressful environment. So stepping off my soapbox and handing the floor back to you, how does this cumulative stress affect us and does it build up these neurological changes that you're referring to. Are those distinctively different.
00:28:04:06 - 00:28:23:05
Lindsay Faas
Oh yeah. So not distinctively different. So what you need to understand about your brain is that your brain is like a muscle, really more like a series of muscles. And I talk about this in a bunch of different episodes on my podcast. So if anyone wants to do a deeper dive in a handful of minutes, we're going to do this.
00:28:23:05 - 00:28:47:08
Lindsay Faas
Go check it out. But it's like a series of muscles. And what you really need to understand about your brain is that there is like a specific region that handles a lot of your stress, particularly higher stress and trauma. So it's a part of your brain that kind of goes on autopilot as soon as it starts to input that there is something stressful or traumatic happening, it takes over.
00:28:47:10 - 00:29:11:05
Lindsay Faas
And it does that because in, you know, evolutionary perspective, its job is to keep us safe and alive. So it needs to act quickly and divert resources to keep you as safe as it possibly can. Okay. What's super fascinating about your brain is when it, starts to utilize a certain region, that region gets stronger, like a muscle, right?
00:29:11:05 - 00:29:26:05
Lindsay Faas
So if I, like, always lifted weights with my right arm, my right arm is going to get real strong. And then you know what's going to happen when I need to lift anything, it's going to be my right arm that goes to grab for it just because it's naturally the stronger arm. I'm not even going to think about it all that hard.
00:29:26:05 - 00:29:50:00
Lindsay Faas
It's just going to do the reaching right. So our brain works kind of similarly when we're exposed to persistent stress, whether that's, you know, exposure related to traumatic calls or just like the the additional above and beyond stress of like uncertainty, not knowing what comes next, not knowing what to expect. And that happens a lot within these systems where employers are really unpredictable.
00:29:50:00 - 00:30:06:19
Lindsay Faas
Ball workplaces are really unpredictable. that I could get a call at any second regardless of what the call is. Right? Like the fact that I could be on the toilet and I have to answer a call right this second and figure out how to make that happen. Right? Like all of that, like heightened level of I got to be ready.
00:30:06:21 - 00:30:24:07
Lindsay Faas
Is that part of your brain? So when that part of your brain is working that hard, it's actually not meant to do that. No one's brain was actually wired to do these kinds of jobs. when we're asking our brain to have that part on an alert, so much of the time we are giving it a lot of reps.
00:30:24:07 - 00:30:44:12
Lindsay Faas
Right? And so it's the part of the brain that's working out harder. But what that means is that even in, like, really not stressful situations, it will be the arm that reaches to grab for stuff, even though it's totally not the best part of your brain to do that job. So it'll be the part of your brain that then goes home and, you know, like your kids are fighting.
00:30:44:13 - 00:31:13:19
Lindsay Faas
And instead of it being like your parenting part of the brain, that's able to be like, hey guys, let's talk this out and figure this out together. It jumps into risk assessing and reactivity that is like above and beyond what this situation calls for. Right. And so it'll be this thing that starts to like generalize itself out and start inappropriately handling situations, despite the fact that it is not the most skilled part of your brain for any given situation.
00:31:13:21 - 00:31:21:12
Wayne Mulder
That's fascinating. Is that something that can be relearned? Is that something kind of.
00:31:21:15 - 00:31:22:12
Lindsay Faas
Yes.
00:31:22:14 - 00:31:23:10
Wayne Mulder
Okay.
00:31:23:12 - 00:31:26:13
Lindsay Faas
Yes. Yes. So that you.
00:31:26:15 - 00:31:28:16
Wayne Mulder
Kind of which leaves me wondering.
00:31:28:18 - 00:31:45:12
Lindsay Faas
Yes. So the really hard part is because this is the job that you do and because you do it in like 12 hour shifts or whatever that looks like where you're at, you are still going to give that reps, right? Like we're not stopping working out the right arm to start working at the left arm to catch it up.
00:31:45:14 - 00:32:04:10
Lindsay Faas
So there will always probably be some amount of disproportionate ways in which your stress center is going to be more highly developed. Okay. However, there are some really cool ways that we can counterbalance and actually train alternative parts of your brain so that they can kind of look at that stress center and be like, hey bud, how about you take a break for a minute?
00:32:04:10 - 00:32:30:20
Lindsay Faas
I'm going to do the heavy lifting here. So what's super interesting about your brain is that when your stress center activates, because it's associated with all of those evolutionary things about keeping you safe, it gets primary focus. And so what that means is it will actually divert resources away from other parts of your brain, essentially turning them offline in order to further activate itself.
00:32:30:21 - 00:32:44:12
Lindsay Faas
And it's doing that so that it can make sure it's doing all of the things it possibly can to keep you safe as it can. Right? The hard part is it's doing that in a lot of situations that have zero things to do with safety, right? So like when my kids are fighting, no one is unsafe right this minute.
00:32:44:14 - 00:33:07:05
Lindsay Faas
None of this is required, but my brain is doing it anyways because it's just really practiced at it. So what's fascinating about that is one of the regions it will start to turn off. And we actually see this in EEG studies where we trigger the crap out of people and then watch what happens in their brain is that their front brain, which is the part of you that manages you're like reasonable, rational, logical thinking.
00:33:07:07 - 00:33:30:09
Lindsay Faas
It actually turns almost off in order to divert resources back to your stress center. And so when we force those parts of the brain to turn back on, we can force the energy in your brain to redistribute and kind of reallocate resources. And the more we train your brain to do that, the more we are enhancing its ability to learn new pathways.
00:33:30:09 - 00:33:48:03
Lindsay Faas
So instead of being like, oh, we just jump to stress center and we just stay there and we handle it, here it goes. Okay, we're going to jump to stress center, but then we've got this skill that helps us turn on our front brain again. And when that's on we do better things. So we're going to do that more because we handle life better when those work together.
00:33:48:05 - 00:34:11:21
Lindsay Faas
Right. So we're trying to train them to coordinate and think about your front brain as your front brain likes really easy, straightforward activities that help reactivate it and turn it on. So your front brain is responsible for things like language sequencing, decision making, math, all kinds of tasks like that. So this is really fun to do with people.
00:34:11:21 - 00:34:30:06
Lindsay Faas
I actually do this with people in session when they're feeling really triggered by something. some people will go into like panic attacks or, like reliving an event if they're having like a really traumatic trigger and you do this thing where you kind of go like, okay, this if you look around the room and find me five things, just identify them, right?
00:34:30:07 - 00:34:47:23
Lindsay Faas
Okay. There's the picture and there's the clock and there's the box of Kleenex and there's the stuffed bear behind me. And. Right, whatever the things are. Right. Okay, cool. Nice to see. You're like, notice five things you can hear around us right now. Okay, well, I can hear the clock ticking and I can hear you breathing. And I hear your laptop fan, and I can hear the traffic outside.
00:34:47:23 - 00:35:03:19
Lindsay Faas
And we have a train nearby. It's always going by. Right? Okay, cool. Now I need you to name me five things you can feel. And I mean, like, tactile touch. Like, what is your body? Well, I can feel like the hair on my face, and I can feel my warm jacket, and I can feel like my shoes feel kind of tight.
00:35:03:21 - 00:35:26:18
Lindsay Faas
I can feel like my bum in the chair, right foot, feet on the floor. Right now. I want us to do like four of each of those things. So four things you see, four things you hear four things you can feel three of each, two of each one of each. The process of identifying the different things around us in the present moment and labeling them, giving them language are actually like stupid.
00:35:26:18 - 00:35:47:01
Lindsay Faas
Simple as it sounds, really hard work for the front brain. And so by forcing ourselves to engage in that task, we are demanding that our front brain turn back on, which means that it has to remove things away from our stress center in order to redistribute that energy. And then it can help us have a better perspective of what's going on around us.
00:35:47:01 - 00:36:02:17
Lindsay Faas
So we'll do this with clients and I'll say, okay, we're going to work through this activity. We'll kind of get ourselves where we've done the activity. I'll say, okay, now tell me about the thing that you were really upset about a minute ago, and their ability to talk about it is different because the part of the brain that is able to talk about it is different.
00:36:02:19 - 00:36:21:02
Lindsay Faas
It's not just their stress center and trauma that's like actively in it that's telling me the story. It's a part of their brain that can like look back on it as if it's past the can, recognize that it's old, that like, maybe this happened years and years ago, sometimes decades ago. It's a part of their brain that can tell different parts of the story.
00:36:21:02 - 00:36:39:03
Lindsay Faas
Oh, but like then I remember that that other thing happened that was actually really good. Or stress center. Can't remember those parts. It only remembers the awful parts. Right. And so when we can get our front brain to get more online, we can give ourselves this gift of having, our stress center kind of contained differently.
00:36:39:05 - 00:37:19:17
Wayne Mulder
Now, bringing that that is absolutely fascinating and probably, one of the best ways I've ever heard that described, taking that one step further then could agencies, could supervisors, could whomever within the law enforcement side of first responders? well, and really the other side too, but this is obviously what I can speak intelligently to. But let's say we're doing training that we're trying to teach them, active shooter training or some sort of crisis response, high elevated levels of stress that are going on by adding these cognitive steps that you're referring to using the brain, would that then better prepare them for decision making in those moments?
00:37:19:17 - 00:37:21:18
Wayne Mulder
Is that kind of what you're saying here?
00:37:21:20 - 00:37:36:08
Lindsay Faas
Potentially true. I also think the like aftermath of one of the fascinating things about our stress center is when it encodes memory, it does a really shitty job of it. sorry, I should have asked at the start if I'm allowed to swear.
00:37:36:10 - 00:37:37:19
Wayne Mulder
Yeah. No, I'm sorry.
00:37:37:20 - 00:37:39:10
Lindsay Faas
Okay. Sorry about that. It's a.
00:37:39:10 - 00:37:42:08
Wayne Mulder
Podcast. So, feel free to speak freely.
00:37:42:10 - 00:38:03:10
Lindsay Faas
I just this is how I talk, so I forget, but I often do on my podcast. So, so the reality is, is like when your normal brain encodes memory, it encodes it totally differently than how your stress center encodes memory. And so when our stress center encodes memory, our stress center is actually one of the few parts of our brain that doesn't have a clock.
00:38:03:12 - 00:38:22:19
Lindsay Faas
so it doesn't understand the difference between past, present, and future. Because, again, from an evolutionary standpoint, its only job is to keep me safe right now. So it acts as if everything happening is a right now problem, which means that when it's the only part of the brain on, it's the part of the brain that's also storing that memory.
00:38:22:21 - 00:38:41:13
Lindsay Faas
And then that memory is held in a space that doesn't understand that this thing happened a long time ago. Right. So when we get triggered, right, like your fireworks story, I'm like looking for the active shooter, and I'm, like, looking for my gun because I feel like I'm back there again. Right? Like it doesn't feel like I'm in a moment where something is triggered.
00:38:41:13 - 00:38:58:16
Lindsay Faas
I feel like I'm in it, and I relive it as if it is occurred in the present. That will happen for people about material that happened decades ago, which feels crazy, but it's totally true because that's how your brain has stored it, and it lacks access to knowing the difference in time when you're in that part of your brain.
00:38:58:18 - 00:39:31:03
Lindsay Faas
So it's not just the like in the moment. I mean, it could I would be curious about the research that might offer, you know, additional information about whether that would really subtle and offer more capacity in the thick of those moments, for sure. I can speak to the fact that following those moments when we are experienced and re-experiencing them, the ability to turn our brain kind of like not back on, but like to redistribute that energy in our brain makes a huge difference in how we continue to tell the story to ourselves.
00:39:31:05 - 00:39:41:23
Wayne Mulder
Interesting. So then in that case, that's where these like critical instant stress debriefings and those kind of things become so important. Is that the logic there?
00:39:42:01 - 00:40:01:12
Lindsay Faas
they can be really important. I mean, that's I think one of my, like, mixed bag things. If I had to be on a soapbox right now, that'd be one of them, please. Because I don't know that everyone is as skilled at offering those critical incident stress debriefs as I wish they were. I think sometimes they're offered in, like, peer support kinds of ways, which is, like not to speak ill of it.
00:40:01:12 - 00:40:22:03
Lindsay Faas
I think it still has value, but I think if we're not offering constructive tools, then what it ends up being is, you know, this thing where we're collectively reliving it, but no one's actually turning any new parts of their brain on. And so we're just re entrenching a version of the story that activates our stress center and says, yeah, you should do the heavy lifting here.
00:40:22:05 - 00:40:40:22
Lindsay Faas
and we're just doing that in our room all together. So I think that there are some really great people who do that work who are able to offer some really key tools that support the room. the other thing I think that I find with some critical incident stress debriefs and this is actually less about the the debrief or the person offering it.
00:40:40:22 - 00:41:09:18
Lindsay Faas
And more to the workplace within which and the cultural pieces attached to that workplace is that I think there's often a lack of sufficient safety, like emotional safety, to feel fully able to share and learn in some of those spaces. And so when there has been a lot of like workplace stuff, it makes it complicated to feel like you get to really take advantage of that as fully as you'd maybe like to.
00:41:09:20 - 00:41:28:07
Wayne Mulder
I like that well, and I think at least this is my anecdotal opinion, for whatever it's worth. But what I'm seeing is it's it's great. And that's where I'm like you hesitant to ever speak ill of. At least they're doing something kind of mentality, you know. And so we're seeing this. But then there is a question of best practices.
00:41:28:07 - 00:42:08:04
Wayne Mulder
And there is a question of are the people that are doing these things the right people? Are they properly trained our way? So I think you bring up a very good point that even myself that I've questioned from time to time, and I've seen it even in my own personal experiences, because not only is there the training portion of it, then whenever you get into conversations about like peer support or some kind of thinking and you also run into potential personality conflicts, and sometimes if at the agency or whatever is forcing these conversations to take place and the person and the in, you already have some sort of adversarial relationship really going to happen
00:42:08:04 - 00:42:11:00
Wayne Mulder
because of personalities, it can lead to all sorts of problems.
00:42:11:02 - 00:42:35:04
Lindsay Faas
Absolutely. Well, and I think that like, again, I never want to speak ill of efforts to make things better. So like I'm glad that we are doing things. Yeah, let's throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks. Like do it. But I do think it's important that we be conscientious of the fact that just because of workplaces said like, oh, but we offered a critical incident stress debriefing check doesn't mean that that was effective.
00:42:35:06 - 00:42:55:09
Lindsay Faas
Right. And so can we, like, check in with our people and go, hey, but we're still having retention issues and we're solving staffing issues and we're still having. So what does that tell us about how the critical incident stress debrief is a value, but maybe not like the whole shebang, and maybe it needs to be offered differently, or maybe it needs to be offered in addition to some other things.
00:42:55:09 - 00:42:58:19
Lindsay Faas
And maybe we need to consider a more holistic picture here.
00:42:58:21 - 00:43:15:09
Wayne Mulder
Yeah, well, I think you hit the nail on the head with what you just said. This is the whole problem. A lot of times with government type government based organizations is it becomes a checklist. So like you totally it's like, you know, so they're like, oh yeah, this is the newest thing. We need to do this. Okay. Put it on the checklist.
00:43:15:09 - 00:43:31:18
Wayne Mulder
Let's hand it around. Well, that doesn't mean it did any good. You're just totally everyone's just checking it off. So I think that's a phenomenal point that you're bringing forward. Yeah I'm going to come back to a couple of these questions. But I don't want to miss the most important stuff. And I want to say something. So you started a podcast at some point.
00:43:31:18 - 00:43:34:08
Wayne Mulder
So please tell us about your podcast.
00:43:34:10 - 00:44:04:01
Lindsay Faas
Yeah. So I started a podcast, I think also in 2019, we might have started around the same time. and it was out of and well before the podcast, I started a course and they're actually kind of tied to each other. So I started the course about a year prior to the podcast, and it was out of absolute frustration that it started because I literally had a day where I had five clients back to back.
00:44:04:03 - 00:44:26:05
Lindsay Faas
They were all first responders, different versions of first responders. There's a paramedic and a corrections officer and, RCMP member and whoever else. Firefighter. so literally like the spectrum and gamut. and they were all new. So they were all for sessions and I find that often in first session, I'm doing a lot of like, education about pieces like your brain.
00:44:26:05 - 00:44:41:10
Lindsay Faas
This is how your brain works. This is how why trauma is because people will come in with like, why? Why me was can I not hack it? Like, is it something about me that's deficient, that's not able to do this work? I did it for so long and I was, you know, I did way worse things than this call.
00:44:41:10 - 00:45:01:14
Lindsay Faas
But somehow this is the one that got me. And so all of these are conversations about, like, it really wasn't that call. It was the additive feature of these calls over time. Plus all of the other organizational level B.S. and right, like, it's more than that. And here's how your brain works and here's what's happening and whatever. And it did feel like Groundhog Day.
00:45:01:14 - 00:45:18:18
Lindsay Faas
It felt like I gave the exact same spiel five times. And I remember having this moment by like session four, where I was like, I don't even know I'm in the room. Like I could play a recording and it would be as valuable and I could save you money. but why am I here? I could be in another session that actually needs me.
00:45:18:18 - 00:45:42:10
Lindsay Faas
I could just give you this. And I was so frustrated at, like, by the time I get people, they are so far down the rabbit hole that the amount of time and effort and resource that goes into trying to bring them back from that place is a lot. And while I love doing that work, I don't think I should be doing it so often.
00:45:42:10 - 00:46:06:11
Lindsay Faas
I don't think that we should be setting people up into these jobs where we know that's what happens. We know that's the trajectory. Why are we not doing a better job of front loading this? Why are we not educating people on how their brains work? Why are we not giving people tools to more effectively manage their brains? depot, you know, basic training, you know, university of their nurses.
00:46:06:11 - 00:46:23:15
Lindsay Faas
Right. Like, why are we not doing this? Why are we training people and how to respond to everyone else's emergency, but not their own? That's stupid. And I was really I had a temper tantrum, and I went home and I told my husband and I was like, I'm so frustrated because I feel like I spent my whole day doing that thing.
00:46:23:15 - 00:46:44:01
Lindsay Faas
And it's like important and valuable, but it's stupid and so mad. And so I had my moment and my husband, knowing me as he does, looked at me and said, so what are you going to do about it? And how much is it going to cost me? And I was like, that's why I love you. Thank you for that.
00:46:44:03 - 00:47:09:00
Lindsay Faas
and the decision was, if no one else is going to train it, I'll figure out how to do it. So I created this course called Beating the Breaking Point. And that's where this all started. and the course was intended to be this, like online safe space. One of the pieces of feedback I had from a paramedic when I mentioned the idea to her, she said, you know, we actually had a recent training for our company.
00:47:09:02 - 00:47:33:06
Lindsay Faas
and it was awful because it was kind of this vibe, like it was this idea of like resilience training, but it was offered in person, in a group setting. And the trainer really didn't get our culture and that most of us don't actually like each other that much. and so it doesn't feel safe to talk about some of the working examples, because at the end of the day, these are people who have to believe I'm going to have their back.
00:47:33:06 - 00:48:06:16
Lindsay Faas
And if they don't think I'm okay, it's not going to be okay. So I don't feel open to sharing how I'm doing and what my mental health stuff is. And so when we were talking about it, I said, I think I kind of like makes the decision for me, we're going to offer this online. We're going to make it something people can do in their own time so that it feels personal and like they can confront this stuff they need to confront without feeling like there's eyes peering in, judging it, or worrying about them for it, and questioning whether they're sufficiently okay to cover my back as we go out into whatever the next call
00:48:06:16 - 00:48:35:19
Lindsay Faas
is. And so that was the start. and then as time wore on, I, I discovered really quickly that first responders are the most skeptical humans on Earth. Yes. Which I love about all of you, but it's also really hard to then convince them to try something like a course. and so I was suggested by a close friend to consider a blog or a podcast or something, and I talked to a number of friends.
00:48:35:19 - 00:48:54:00
Lindsay Faas
Most of my friends are nurses. I don't know why or how that happened, but it did. And so they all talked about, you know, we have really long commutes and shift changes at seven. And so if you put up a podcast that we knew came out every whatever day at 7 a.m., I'd listen to that on my commute home.
00:48:54:01 - 00:49:12:22
Lindsay Faas
Perfect. And so that's how the podcast started. Was this desire to like, how do we how do we make this stuff more available? Like, none of it is rocket science, really. None of it is rocket science. Yeah. How do we make this available so that it isn't so disconnected? And we're leaving people to not learn this stuff until so much later?
00:49:13:00 - 00:49:19:07
Lindsay Faas
Have so many clients who say, I wish I had known this ten years ago, maybe I wouldn't be here. I can't disagree.
00:49:19:09 - 00:49:45:05
Wayne Mulder
Yup. Absolutely right. And I, I strongly advocate for professionals, experts such as yourself, who are not tied to agencies for all the reasons you just said. like the example you gave of the individual just not feeling safe in that environment. Not only is it the interpersonal side of that, but a lot of times the the fear which is well-founded, is that if I say something, it could affect my career.
00:49:45:05 - 00:49:52:10
Wayne Mulder
And obviously we have a history of that occurring. So yeah, we know that to be you know, it's not an irrational fear by any means.
00:49:52:12 - 00:49:53:07
Lindsay Faas
Totally.
00:49:53:09 - 00:50:20:04
Wayne Mulder
So what I love about the Behind the Long podcast. So anyone listening you need to check out Lindsay's podcast Behind the Line. What I love about it is, like you said, it's perfect for those listening to and from work, but it is actionable. It's small, digestible chunks of actionable advice from an expert. So that's what I love. Now, March was thematic, I believe it is that going to be kind of what to expect going forward or what are your thoughts on that?
00:50:20:06 - 00:50:39:10
Lindsay Faas
Yeah, so the podcast has always been a bit thematic, and mostly because it just lets my brain think clearer. so let's be kind of like chunk out pieces of work and like, okay, we're going to tackle this. some of the themes are themes that are tackled strictly as solo episodes where I'm just sharing my thoughts and tools.
00:50:39:12 - 00:50:56:09
Lindsay Faas
and others are thematic and based on interviews. and so it kind of mixes up, week to week, a month to month. It usually comes in month chunks, that will cover a theme for a stretch of a month. There are some themes that will pick up on and do for a longer stretch. I actually did a series the first year.
00:50:56:09 - 00:51:19:23
Lindsay Faas
The first season, on the dare to lead book. where I think that took two months to go through. we did a podcast series last summer that was interviews with diverse frontline helpers, and it was actually for that purpose of like, can we hear that? Actually, there's a lot of us. And it's not just police or fire or like, we're not so unique in some of the challenges that we're experiencing.
00:51:19:23 - 00:51:30:17
Lindsay Faas
And can we bridge to each other a little bit as support resources? So we did that last summer for 2 or 3 months. and it was fantastic to hear some of the themes that are across everyone.
00:51:30:19 - 00:51:49:15
Wayne Mulder
It's awesome. Yeah, definitely. To anyone listening, check it out. There'll be links in the show notes. It really is a really good podcast and it has a specific purpose, which is what I love about it. It really helps. Even I even today I was listening as I prepped for this to another, episode, and I was learning things.
00:51:49:19 - 00:52:07:00
Wayne Mulder
In fact, we won't talk about it because I want them to go listen to it. But when you were talking about the flight freeze and fight for it, and then an actionable step to do when you're in that moment. So, definitely the listeners need to go back and listen to, marches. well, all of them, but specifically to, march this podcast.
00:52:07:02 - 00:52:21:17
Wayne Mulder
Let me, let me go one last direction here as we're narrowing down time because it's a word that's so often overused. But I do like the word. So let me get your, let me start with what is your opinion and what is resiliency in your, I know it's.
00:52:21:20 - 00:52:40:13
Lindsay Faas
A good question. No, I love that you asked it because I actually did this. Like, I think it was, maybe a month or two ago. I had a bit of a rant on Instagram, about this exact question, because I had I've had a number of people who talk about like, part of why I don't think your course has value is because it has the word resilience training in it.
00:52:40:15 - 00:53:03:07
Lindsay Faas
and resilience feels overused. And I think part of the mistake is the belief that resilience means to like, bounce back. And that's actually not what resilience means. But it's been kind of this version of what we've been taught about resilience that I think is just super unfortunate. I feel very similarly about, the term self-care. I think we've been trained to believe that self-care is like bubble baths.
00:53:03:08 - 00:53:28:04
Lindsay Faas
That's B.S. listen to my podcast. Look, get all of the reasons why I have a lot of rants about that. resilience is this piece about how we are able to tell a story. So a resilient capacity to tell a story is able to see all of the features of a story. so, like the good and the bad, it's not just going like, oh, that was really hard, but it's fun.
00:53:28:06 - 00:53:54:01
Lindsay Faas
Which is, I think how we think about resilience, that we're supposed to just be like, oh yeah, it's another day. It's fine, I'm fine. Resilience is actually like owning that I am not fine, that I am not fine about this happening, that I am not fine about this existing in the world, but also being able to hold that intention with the fact that it does and that it did happen and that I have to find a way to like, hold both simultaneously.
00:53:54:03 - 00:54:17:21
Lindsay Faas
And resilience gives us tools to try to hold those tensions. So it says, yeah, the world is hard and bad things happen and the world is good and beautiful. Things happen. And there is a way that those coexist and that you coexist in holding them. And resilience tools are the tools that let our brain do both things at the same time.
00:54:17:23 - 00:54:19:07
Wayne Mulder
I love that.
00:54:19:09 - 00:54:20:02
Lindsay Faas
Yeah.
00:54:20:04 - 00:54:33:04
Wayne Mulder
Yeah, I love that. And you're right, because, when the word is often used, in fact, even myself, it usually is attributed more to like a rubber band or to something that returns to its original.
00:54:33:06 - 00:54:33:21
Lindsay Faas
Totally.
00:54:34:00 - 00:54:42:14
Wayne Mulder
But I love how how you're describing. If I'm understanding it is more of the ability to exist in both these moments at the same time. Is that. Yeah.
00:54:42:16 - 00:54:48:20
Lindsay Faas
Okay. Totally. Yeah. I can give you a really good example. If you want a funny story, please. Do. We have like five minutes?
00:54:49:02 - 00:54:49:22
Wayne Mulder
We do. Okay.
00:54:50:00 - 00:55:08:05
Lindsay Faas
So my husband and I were on this trip to Portugal. we were on our babymoon. I was pregnant with my first child, and there's. We're in this town called Porto, and Porto is a port city. There's this double decker bridge, and it's traffic as well as pedestrian on both levels. and we had to cross this bridge.
00:55:08:05 - 00:55:22:23
Lindsay Faas
So the town is kind of split by this channel that opens out to the ocean, and we're staying on one side, but all the restaurants and wineries and things like that are on the other side. And so we're wandering over for dinner and we're on the top level. And my husband is a musician as well as an amateur photographer.
00:55:22:23 - 00:55:48:00
Lindsay Faas
So he's got his tripod and it's sunset. So we're standing on the top level and he's taking pictures of sunset. And I'm, you know, handing him equipment and looking out over the water and enjoying this moment. And he very passively says to me, I wonder how many people have. And then he kind of trailed off, and I very casually, with absolutely no thought about it whatsoever.
00:55:48:00 - 00:56:10:15
Lindsay Faas
I said, jumped, and he looked at me like I had five heads. Like he was horrified. And I looked at him like, wait, what was that? Not the right answer. Is there another answer? I'm so confused because in my head there are no other answers, right? And he says, oh my God, Lindsay. No, I was going to say proposed.
00:56:10:17 - 00:56:24:13
Lindsay Faas
And I was like, oh my God. There was another answer like, my actual words were, oh my gosh, you're so adorable that that was an option. And he's like, your twisted that that wasn't such.
00:56:24:13 - 00:56:26:02
Wayne Mulder
A good option.
00:56:26:04 - 00:56:43:12
Lindsay Faas
Right? Okay. Like I it's funny because every every first responder I have told this story to is like there's no other answer. You were totally right. That's the only answer that I tell them the end of the story. They're like, oh, there's another answer. That's such a cute answer. I'm like, I know he's blissfully ignorant and naive about life.
00:56:43:12 - 00:57:03:08
Lindsay Faas
It's fun. It's cute. the thing about it is this moment where I remember being confronted with this like, oh, does that make me, like, twisty and bad and gross that that's how my my view of the world is now, because this is the job I do. I deal with suicide all the time, and these are all things in my life.
00:57:03:08 - 00:57:25:21
Lindsay Faas
They're not things in his life. Right. And I remember walking away from that and kind of processing that out a little bit to go like, can we hold the tension? My life includes this thing and it includes it frequently, like suicide check ins are like a day to day, hour to hour. Part of my job that is not a thing that registers in his life at all.
00:57:26:03 - 00:57:48:02
Lindsay Faas
Like he would never, not at all. Not a thing. Right? So can I hold the tension that like that is true while simultaneously holding the tension that I am in this beautiful place that I am with a person who sees the world so differently from me. And I actually had some clients who said, like, why aren't you like mad that he didn't get it?
00:57:48:04 - 00:58:10:09
Lindsay Faas
And I remember saying, like, actually, I think that's part of my resilience is being able to go like, oh, I want to hold your version of this story closer. Like, I want to keep my humanity intact. And so while yes, I'm going to hold that my my understanding of the world includes this, I am also going to like, receive with open arms that there is a version of life where that's not a thing you even register at all.
00:58:10:11 - 00:58:25:03
Lindsay Faas
And that sounds beautiful. And I want to like I want to soak that in. Right. And that's I think what gives us resilience is the ability to go, yeah, this, but also this. And how do we like hold those together.
00:58:25:05 - 00:58:52:10
Wayne Mulder
That is so beautifully put that that is a phenomenal picture of exactly what I've tried to say over and over again. When I talk about the things that this career does and affects you, you're right. You go to places that is just not normal to somebody who's never been exposed to those things using the word normal. I don't like to do it in this illustration, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the way they see the world is wrong either.
00:58:52:10 - 00:58:58:22
Wayne Mulder
And I love that picture that you give us. Yeah, we could go on forever. But let me ask you my final question that I ask everybody.
00:58:58:23 - 00:58:59:09
Lindsay Faas
Go for.
00:58:59:09 - 00:59:11:21
Wayne Mulder
It. many of the things that we've discussed will answer this, but, boiling it down, what is the one takeaway, the one thing that we as a law enforcement officers can do that's going to make a difference in our personal lives?
00:59:11:23 - 00:59:19:02
Lindsay Faas
Learn about your brain, okay? Learn everything you can about how your brain works and then work to serve it better.
00:59:19:04 - 00:59:23:19
Wayne Mulder
I love it, thank you so much. What is the best way for people to connect with you?
00:59:23:21 - 00:59:38:14
Lindsay Faas
Yeah, so you can find me on Facebook and Instagram. It's at Lindsay Air Force. and you can find me online, Google my name and you'll find all the things. yeah. And check out the podcast.
00:59:38:16 - 00:59:54:06
Wayne Mulder
Please, please. Oh, time listeners, check it out. I'll have everything linked up, including to the, Well, I'll just have everything linked up there, go down to the show notes and just select it. I you're going to love what Lindsay is doing and it's making a huge difference that. Lindsay, thank you so much for coming up.
00:59:54:08 - 00:59:56:23
Lindsay Faas
Thanks so much for having me. And it was such a delight.
00:59:58:07 - 01:00:14:11
Wayne Mulder
Thank you so much for watching or listening to this week's podcast. Every episode, it has full show notes, with all the links and pictures, transcriptions, anything you may think you want. It's all at on the blue line.com. And then forward slash show notes. And you can go to the individual shows. be sure to check that down.
01:00:14:11 - 01:00:29:05
Wayne Mulder
Be sure to check all the links it's in the section below. Other than that, that is all for today. Don't forget that. I will see you next week, at the podcast. But in the meantime, I'm going to see you out there on the blue line.